Does a spiritual but not religious person say grace?
For some reason my post/question got deleted.
I had a woman I was going to date that said she was spiritual but not religious. I took that to mean she believed in a god but did not follow any religion.
We had coffee-snack for our meet and greet. She said grace and told me she always thanked God and asked for blessings That sounded religious to me,
What is your own definition of "Spiritual but Not Religious?"
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Thanking a mythical being for Magically producing the meal? WTActualF???????
AnneWimsey
Level 9
Oct 1, 2021
6
To me, "spiritual" means you thank the animal for becoming your food. "Religious" means you thank some invisible deity for putting the animal in the way of your fork.
Notlost
Level 6
Oct 2, 2021
5
My thoughts too
Well put!
I always thought the term spiritual but not religious meant they didn't want to admit they were an atheist.
I've been an atheist for at least 50 years and when my children were still at home we did not say grace but we did pause at the beginning of family meals and center ourselves to where we were all on the same page. I did not consider the action spiritual in any way but it definitely made for a less hectic meal time.
When I am in the presence of religious people that want to say a blessing I always respect their wishes and bow my head at the dinner table. I'm not disruptive at a public event that wants to say a blessing but I sure don't bow my head.
Lorajay
Level 9
Oct 1, 2021
5
I define spirituality as being in touch with one's own human spirit. It's another term for describing the "inner mind" which has knowledge and powers unknown to most people. It has nothing to do with gods, beliefs, angels, and all that other religious bullshit.
mischl
Level 8
Oct 1, 2021
5
I concur. It's about recognizing there is more to our reality than just our physical matter, our brains and minds, but also a human spirit and possibly even spirits in nature and animals as well. Which is why I am humble enough to identify as Agnostic instead of Atheist within our community of non-believers, because I accept the possibility that I could be wrong and that there may be more to the world and our reality than what our senses can detect. I also agree with your concept of the inner mind, something that humans continue to learn more about with time.
But can you, or anyone else for that matter, offer up actual empirically tried, tested and PROVEN evidence that humans have a 'spirit'?
@Triphid Nope. That's a definite NO. One can only satisfy (perhaps) to himself herself that there's a spiritual being somewhere within. Trying to prove that to anybody else is an exercise in frustration. Trying to find that answer for myself took most of my adult life until 1994-95. I was reeeally impressed, so much that I wrote a book about it, and that's it. I'm done.
@mischl So to all intents and purposes then one could honestly say that this book and your conception of the so-called 'Spirit' within humans is, in fact, ONLY your OWN interpretation of your OWN un-tested and un-peer proven ideas and absolutely NOTHIUNG more.
Which by all technicalities, logic and reasonings can be said as being EXACTLY the same for EVERY other form of Religious belief invent by humans since time immemorial, is that so precisely then?
@Triphid Wait a minnit. There's a BIG difference between my discovering something and documenting it versus trying to get other people to believe it. I've had some success (and gained certain knowledge about myself) that has made my life MUCH happier as a result. But I don't have any desire whatsoever to convince you of what I learned.
@mischl Hang on a bit here, HOW can one discover something that is either totally undetectable or does not exist in the first place?
Ah, so you do NOT wish to acquaint/convince me or anyone else of that which you BELIEVE you have learned then.
Is it ,perhaps, because you have a driving dread and fear that someone, somewhere may quite well have the where-with-all to DISPROVE completely that which YOU THINK you have found to be FACTUAL but is, in all truth and reality, just an unfounded and completely baseless ASSUMPTION?
@mischl Run rabbit, run rabbit, run ,run, run.
In my honest opinion, you are too shit scared to go and debate with anyone, me included, regarding YOUR findings, etc, etc.
But, then again, one can never get the deluded to debate since IF they do then may just coe to realisation of just how deluded they truly have been.
@mischl My name n my Profile comes about from y having and EARNING the Right to hold 2 PhD's and a ThD, hence Triphid instead of Triffids as in the movie.
So then one must assume that your Scree-name, " Mischi" MUST assuredly be either your last name shortened or your first name shortened or just your own little on-line persona ?
Btw, most everyone using the internet, W.W.W. and even this site USE Screen-names and NOT their own FYI.
Auf Weidersehn Dumkopf.
@Triphid I use my own name. I probably shouldn't.
The thing I kept thinking during this exchange was that if one isn't trying to convince anyone of their own beliefs, why would they write them down and publish them?
@JeffMurray I don't have beliefs, and I don't write about beliefs. What I wrote are observations and experiences. "Belief" in my vocabulary is a dirty word.
@mischl "There's a BIG difference between my discovering something and documenting it versus trying to get other people to believe it."
If you're not trying to get other people to believe it, why did you write it down and publish it then? Did you expect people to buy your book, read it, and not believe it?
@JeffMurray Is it not within your capacity to imagine wanting to do something to benefit other people without any personal gain whatsoever? (Btw, your post is full of invalid judgments: I'm not trying to get other people to believe anything, and I'm not trying to sell books.)
@mischl I never said the objective of getting other people to believe was personal gain, nor did I say you were trying to sell books. There were no judgments in my questions at all. (I guess I could have used a different word than 'buy' but I have 'bought' digital versions of things for $0.00 that show up in my 'purchased items' library.) I don't know where you published or if you're even charging anything for it. For all I know it could be self-published and available for free on e-readers.
That said, the question still stands, if you're not trying to get people to believe what you've "discovered to be true" (or to the rest of us 'what you believe' ) then why write it down and share it in any manner?
@mischl To be fair, though, apparently you are selling the books...
Original Zen: Calm Within [amazon.com]
@JeffMurray Jeff, I'm sorry, but I don't have any more time for you. I don't care what you believe.
@mischl So I guess I'd be the first one then. 
@JeffMurray "You'd be the first one" to what?
@mischl Don't try to ruin my hilarious joke by pretending not to get it so I have to explain it to you.
@JeffMurray Sorry. I read back through..and I couldn't catch the context. Are you British or something?
You can always give praise to the farmers and ranchers that allowed you to have a sumptuous feast and the cook who prepared it.
Heavykevy1985
Level 6
Oct 1, 2021
5
At your dinner table? Where they can't hear you?
In my opinion, the difference between 'Spiritual' and 'Religious' is about the same as the difference between Table Salt and Cooking Salt, i.e. there is very little, if not NONE at all.
To my mind, the person who claims to Spiritual but NOT Religious is someone who still insists upon living in the Lala land of Delusions, Deceptions and Pretenses.
Triphid
Level 9
Oct 1, 2021
4
If someone wants to give thanks for their food then they should thank the farmer who grew it, harvested it and cooked it. Probably at least one of the people in that food chain was named Jesus - De Nada.
SnowyOwl
Level 8
Oct 2, 2021
3
Expressing gratitude ... to the animals that lived a restricted life & probably suffered & lost their offspring's lives (to produce dairy & eggs), and/or gave their life ... is respectful, too.
@LizZyG But it doesn't help them... isn't that an empty gesture at that point? Isn't that like giving someone thoughts and prayers?
I see that "Spiritual but not religious" frequently, and it has a broad set of meanings. I assess it to mean: a belief that something or someone unseen controls everything, but the person doesn't belong to a congregation.
BitFlipper
Level 8
Oct 1, 2021
3
Why would it imply that some entity has control? Buddhists and Taoists are spiritual but do not hold belief in such an entity (outside ourselves).
You asked, so here it is:
TO ME spiritual means emotional and religious means practicing a discipline that helps manage emotions.
So... spiritual but not religious just means (to me) emotional but not disciplined.
Every human is emotional. Spock is fictional (and not even fictionally human).
Everybody is spiritual.
Only those who maintain a regular (or even irregular) practice are ever able to escape being slaves to their emotions.
This escape does not mean becoming Spock-like, without emotions. It just means you have the added option of acting on your emotions or not, depending on the result you prefer, instead of being forever driven by the dictates of your emotional instincts.
That is, in my opinion, the original and current and future purpose of authentic religion.
Thanks for asking.
.
skado
Level 9
Oct 1, 2021
3
Ugh “spiritual”.
I think it’s good to acknowledge your gratefulness in a world that isn’t often abundant, but why should we bring any god into it? Careful with those spiritual types. They’re looking for something to make sense to themselves. They often end up cultish in their beliefs.
jenandjuice1111
Level 7
Oct 4, 2021
2
I think that is good advice. Spiritual but thanking , praise, worship and rituals for a diety just sounds like religious w/o a church
Good food, good meat
Good God, let's eat.
WilliamCharles
Level 8
Oct 4, 2021
2
I guess "religious" means following a religion. One can be a believer yet not belong to a religion. I'd say the same applies to "spiritual" because both believe in a supernatural force.
Alienbeing
Level 8
Oct 2, 2021
2
Why does the believing in a Supernatural require a religion? Doesn't religion mean doctrine and worship? You can believe and not worship
@Shane4Agnostic Where did I say believing in Supernatural requires a religion? I didn't, what are you referring to?
@Alienbeing just asking a general question to all since you brought up Supernatural
Good food, Good Company, Yea god!
dalefvictor
Level 8
Oct 1, 2021
2
The grandparents would say grace back in the day, and you would swear they went through some kind of official training and shit.....I will never reach granddaddy’s level as an orator, nope nope....
of-the-mountain
Level 9
Oct 1, 2021
2
Hard to label that one. I have pagan friends who pray to several deities, but are not part of any religion, so they would say they are not religious. THey also say they are spiritual. It is probably in how she sees the line between praying and religious. If there is not a specific religion, then she probably doesn't see it as religious. That is my guess.
still playing make believe, but without the dogma.
PadraicM
Level 7
Oct 1, 2021
2
Worship in a diety is a religion even if they don't have a name for it.
One could be religious about anything if they ascribe enough importance to it, no deity required. That is why it is good to get somebody to define the words as they are using them, then hold them to those definitions (if discussing the validity of an idea). If you tell them what you think and insist that they use your definitions for their ideas, you probably won't have a very useful discussion.
Isn't the need for prayer, dogma?
@JeffMurray I have always used dogma to mean something like "a (set of) principle(s) from some authority (e.g. a religions leader of godhead) that are seen as true and incontrovertible." So it would depend on the the source for the need for prayer. If they are told to pray x times per day in a specific way and all that, then yes, it could be part of dogma. If they personally think that prayer is simply a means of communicating with whatever they believe is a god-type figure, then no.
@PadraicM Yes, but if they feel they need to communicate with said deities through prayer for whatever end result that communication is supposed to bring about it seems pretty dogmatic...
I have frequently seen that label used on dating sites as an option or choice among other labels for one's religious affiliation when the member is completing their profile and choosing which ?s to answer and what way to label themselves. The sad fact is that, esp. in my area of the country, and other heavily Christian areas, labeling yourself as Agnostic or Atheist will not only get you rejected by the vast majority of women in your dating pool, tho I think most men in my dating pool area don't really give a fuck about a woman's religion or lack of it, unless they themselves are very religious. But using the label Atheist or Agnostic in geo areas like mine will also usually be misunderstood, same as the label socialism, because of the deep ignorance and prejudices of most people in my area and other areas like it in the US.
So what is a single on a dating site to do, if they want to have any real chance of meeting someone compatible who is possibly not more than mildly or moderately religious and open-minded enough to tolerate or accept non-belief in a partner? The answer is, for many, that you choose to self-label as Spiritual, but not religious, which is why the dating site provides that label as an option. Because otherwise, you would have almost zero chance of meeting anyone thru a secular or mainstream dating site, since in my area, on Match, there are only about 5% or less women who identify on that religion trait as Agnostic or Atheist, but a significant amount more that identify as Spiritual, but not religious. They obviously have experienced a lot of the same rejection and discrimination as me on sites like that, so they use that catch all label to improve their odds.
TomMcGiverin
Level 8
Oct 1, 2021
1
"Spiritual, but not religious"
. . . sugar coating leads to truth decay 
@FearlessFly Probably true, but in this situation, probably appropriately pragmatic...
@TomMcGiverin . . . and do you describe yourself as honest in your Match profile ?
. . . are you looking for honesty in a 'match' ?
@FearlessFly Yes, and yes. I am also being realistic about the dating pool I have to work with. Can you honestly say you would do any different if you were spending your good money on a dating site? I mean the whole point of it is to hopefully eventually meet someone that you can connect with. How can you connect if the vast majority is going to be too turned off or even confused by the labels Agnostic or Atheist to even give you a chance to get to know you and vice versa? I see you live in MN, possibly even in or around Minneapolis, which is a whole different ballgame, from what I hear, than Des Moines, Iowa, where I live. Much more diverse and more secular. So don't fucking judge me so quick and easily, FF.
Yup, checked your profile, you do live near the Twin Cities, so I was right. You live in a much better dating pool than me, so you can afford to be so bold and honest, but you can fuck yourself as far as judging me when you live where you do.
@FearlessFly Absolutely... I label Agnostic and ask when we match., if she labels a religion, I exp lmk ain't my views, have been told they are not here to change my beliefs or spiritual but not religious, believe Ingrid but don't follow a religion. Then I hear grace, blessings, invited to church and retreats.
To me the word "spiritual" is a useless, meaningless term that conveys no information at all. When I hear that word I just assume the speaker has poor communication skills and is unable to describe their state of mind in a way that the listener can understand.
dumasarok
Level 7
Oct 1, 2021
1
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