The religious bickering that I see is on this page in some of the ridiculous posts given. Example is a man who does not know you at all claiming you have no love and posting bible verses. WTF is that? I suppose people post without reading. Most of us here know each other simply through words on a screen.

@DenoPenno I was referring to your daughter, not anyone on this page. Get it?

Because it's an anyone had proof of God, there would no longer be a question. Some believe they have proof, but what they have is their feelings.

@JonnaBononna it's a personal experience. This is one theme behind the christ story. Despite all the physical evidence he produced, still everyone doubted him. Even calling it witchcraft. Yes, many goto church and it makes them feel better. Perhaps that's the music, perhaps it's the family or communion. But it does make them feel better. Which is something. Others have more profound experiences, and generally it takes great hardship or great discipline to experience spirituality in the most meaningful way. (Such as disease) People are generally too distracted, their third eye too blind to see. So as you think you can speak for everyone, you are wrong. Wrong because you simply think you know it all, and what you have not experienced is simply not possible.

Anyone who has proof of their god claims should not be on this site. At the same time I know I cannot disprove a god so it means "neither of us has proof for our beliefs." Again, notice that the religious make a god claim. I am not making any claims.

@DenoPenno "Anyone who has proof of their God claims should not be on this site." You sir, are a truly fucked up individual with absolutely no love in your heart. You have stopped seeking, but if I were to make claim of any proof of God, it would be love. And you sir, are without it. I know because I've interacted with people like you all my life. People who are otherwise involved, but shove their opinion down peoples' throat with your only purpose to "be right." You cannot embrace anothers' belief. You are an egotistical fool. And I pray to whatever spaghetti monster in the sky that is governing this universe that one day you will know what love is. And that will be your proof.

@DenoPenno 1If I speak in the tongues a of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, b but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

@robman I don't believe in god, and you don't need god to love. You just need to be human. Most of the people who claim to have god hate way more than they love.

@robman If you have any proof, let's see it.

@JonnaBononna Love is just one of many components. But as your proof, you can see the the universe and this earth and all its working components (including the capacity to love) is still functioning. This is with or without your belief. Now if you believe the world is a better off place without toxic emissions spewing in the atmosphere, and we take every effort in knowledge to clean it up, and that works, because of the effort and knowledge, then we can also take components such as "love" develop its characteristics, and spew it into the hearts of others. One of the best definitions of such an idea has been provided in the book which I quoted above. No harm in studying the subject in other books as well. I believe God to be more complex than a book of collected documentation over the years, but I do know that focusing on the spiritual realm enhances our capacity for all kinds of good works for self and others. Its not my duty to provide you with proof, and it is rude and arrogant to tell anyone otherwise that their belief system is wrong.

@robman yet atheists are constantly told we are going to hell for our lack of belief. What's good for the goose, etc.

@JonnaBononna There are idiots on both sides of the spectrum. To stay focused on the topic at hand; a person who argues with someone who has cancer about their faith is a fucking jerk.

@TheMiddleWay this was quoted out of context. I immediately referred to the theme behind biblical reference that not even Christ's experience or the proof which He provided was "proof" to those who witnessed. The point I was trying to make is that it is a subjective proof to many, and it really does not matter how miraculous that person is or how lame they are when testifying their faith; generally their testimony will not be taken seriously.

@TheMiddleWay You are certainly correct. Objective proof is very difficult to obtain when speaking of some kind of supernatural energy source. One source of objective proof for me is that of intelligence. Someone had to discover the disease, someone had to find treatment for disease, and someone had to write about the disease. What percentage of the population has such a motivation? And where do their discoveries stem from? You can then further ask the same thing for whatever else humans invent and innovate. There is a perspective that some diseases are not ethical to treat, that surviving will only lead to more suffering. But otherwise profitable in the eyes of medical professionals.

And this is a biblical reference: God will choose people with or without their belief to carry out some kind of task. And how many people (mostly authors) have made it their life's motivation to figure out what made these people different than the average Joe. And I have found reference that those who have the deepest understanding in genetics, are more inclined to believe that humans are artificially designed.

It is only science that attempts to reproduce a reliable result to prove a hypothesis. And rightly so. But this is indeed human labor and human observation and human motivation. But usually stemming from the works of a single, miraculous individual nonetheless. What goes undocumented are the cases in which science had no intervention. My deduction is there is intervention going on constantly without any human ever being aware. Or more commonly, there is order when it is observed as chaotic. I find my objective reasoning outside of the human. I find it in universal order.

@TheMiddleWay Maybe we are assigning a trait to something we've never witnessed. It is to my observation humans learn through modeling. The model could essentially disappear for long periods and we be left with a finite set of variables. I don't see past versions of humans any less or more smart than present versions of humans. In all objectivity, it is even questionable if our technology is more or less advanced; good or bad...etc. We seem to be impoverished intellectually or spiritually as our ancestors had less distractions and focused on imperical observations of the universe and general traits of human personality. I do not think they would cope well to the society we live today. As this generation does would not cope well to that particular mind.

There does remain imperical evidence that despite the variables being interchanged and resulting in the innovations of engineering and technology we see today, that portions of the world and cultures can remain in a certain way without changing even as the majority population constantly changes into something new and weird.

I see nothing special about "modern" civilization. And until something physical returns to model a new set of variables, we will remain the species that we are. Which is humbly speaking, relatively stupid.