But is it? Are you really claiming that it's sexist for women to ask other women about their experiences and opinions? Are you suggesting that we should not be allowed to compare notes about the various ways we are marginalized? Would you say the same thing to a person of color?

@darren316 well, you're wrong. And your opinion was not sought. If you're a white cis male, then you're at to very top of the food chain of privilege. This doesn't mean a white cis man can't empathize with those who aren't as privileged, but you have demonstrated that you certainly don't possess that capacity. I'm not interested in your opinions.

@darren316 yep, predictably, you're pulling out all the manipulative guns you can muster. They're still the wrong guns, though, child. You're still making this all about yourself. I think we all have a pretty clear picture as to your character by now.

@Deb57 yes it is, no I'm not, you can do whatever you want but since we are in a forum that is full of all sexes, I suggest you open a room only for atheist women were you can rant and rave all you want about whatever it is you want to discuss and or bash, finally, as a person of color myself, what does color have to do in the post? I don't get the deflection.

@Mofo1953 I directed my question to women, because it was their perspective I wanted. How dare you tell me I should need to hide behind a private "room" so that I don't annoy or upset men. How fucking dare you! Do you say that to breastfeeding women? Do you realize how horribly sexist you're being just to make the suggestion. Male privilege and white privilege have a whole lot in common and are the source of a myriad of "isms." Ask any woman of color.

@Deb57 learn how to read woman. People here get points for opening rooms, did i say hide anywhere? It was a suggestion so that your sexist post gets more responses by going to a target audience. Suggestions can be taken or dropped, so spare me your indignation. And I still don't get your dumb comparison of your original poll with racism and color. It is dumb and females or males can be dumb, so consider that a nonsexist assessment of your intelect and lack of reading comprehension.

@Mofo1953 it's clear that you don't "get it," and it's clear that you're blaming me for the fact that you don't get it. You literally told me to "get a room" rather than upset men by asking women for their input. Stop backpedaling now that you have been called out.

@Deb57 you have some serious comprehension issues, i.e. you quote "get a room" knowing well that's a lie, what I said is "open a room" and later clarified that members here get extra points for opening rooms, check it out. So now you're dismissed, I prefer not to talk to people with under par comprehension levels, which in your case is also affected by severe daddy issues that make you feel attacked by anyone with a penis. Get some help, most replies to your post, even by women, reveal your sickening bias. Really, get some help. But of course you won't listen to reason because you choose to have deaf ears to simple suggestions that are given with the hope that your self described miserable life gets some meaning.

@Mofo1953 from the beginning you have attacked me for asking a question that has absolutely nothing to do with you. You have attacked my ability to read and write. You have told me I deserve to be ostracized for making this poll. You have insisted that my reading comprehension, which is above average, is defective. And now you're accusing me of mental illness and a "sickening bias." You really have issues with this topic, don't you? I'm guessing you're pretty damned insecure. You are behaving as though my existence, and the fact that I have a voice, is somehow negatively affecting the functioning of your genitalia. Your fragility is not my problem. Let it go.

@Deb57 wow, you telling me to let it go, psychotic projection, after I told you that I would not engage with you anymore. And you say you have above average reading comprehension, amazing. Ok, I repeat once again, you have serious issues, daddy issues, psychotic issues, reading comprehension issues. Get help. Heed the advice of all those responding to your sexist post. Bye now, I will not respond to anymore of your diatribes.

@Mofo1953 ... and yet you continue to engage. You know absolutely nothing about me and yet you continue to fling poo. Taking into consideration the tinge of panic detectable in your vibe as you keep attacking, I don't think anything could have validated my position any better that your demonstrable freak-out in this thread. I suppose I should thank you for that.

If women voted as a block they could get anything they wanted passed. Anything. They are a majority and they'd invariably have men like me that would be voting with them. Unfortunately, equality for women or even bodily autonomy for women, both of which a lot of men would vote for, is not important enough for enough women to vote as a block.

@JeffMurray Voting as a block works. A minority though? Not as much.

@DragonDust Not sure what you're trying to say...

@JeffMurray A small group vs a large voting group.

@JeffMurray There are far too many women who are brainwashed from birth that their only role is to pass from the possession of their father to the possession of their husband.
They think what they are told to think and vote as they are told to vote.

@DragonDust I apologize, I still don't know what you're trying to say. Are you trying to say that women aren't a majority? Please expound so we can have a dialogue about the actual topic instead of this back and forth of not making sense to each other.

@BufftonBeotch That may be true, but mine is a conditional statement. If enough women cared about women's rights and autonomy as their priority, then they could enact any piece of legislation they wanted to get equality.

@JeffMurray I think I agree with your arguments as I've read them. I think 'then is' is a problem as you said conditional statement. The idea that if most people agree it should be fact. Somebody acted on it right? Belief is not the same as action, that couldn't be true is a common belief. Nestle couldn't fight against water being classed a human right, they couldn't force 12 year old girls to give birth, they couldn't chop down various rainforests, tofu couldn't kill a shitload of animals etc. But all these things happen despite common disagreement.
Most women aren't guilty of misandry but feminist (named for women's suffrage but equality is what it is supposed to be). It's sexist to not let a man pick his child up from school. Sexist feminists aren't feminists by definition at least to me.

@DragonDust I didn't really make all that out, but I'll respond to individual parts.
No amount of agreement makes something a fact. Conversely, no amount of disagreement stops a fact from being a fact. Women ARE a majority. IF they collectively cared about their rights and autonomy more than anything else (which, in my opinion, they should) THEN they could guarantee equality for themselves. That IS a fact no matter how many people disagree with it. The reasons why it hasn't happened also don't change it's a fact.

I lost the thread in the water, abortion, tofu part and failed to find it again after that.

@JeffMurray Sorry about that totally scatterbrained at the moment so it's bits of multiple rants smashed together not the most coherent thing to read... Multiple times. I initially just made a vague statement that meant a large voting block (like women in this case) could effect/pass whatever they wanted which you pointed out. By 'then is' or 'conditional' terms I mean that despite agreement/disagreement it isn't the same as action. I worry that a lot just gets left because people agree but don't act.
I'm up way too late and shouldn't be posting just replying. I honestly didn't think a voting block comment could go this far out of control. I suppose I am also scattered without a clear question.

@DragonDust Oh, yeah, agreed. However, they wouldn't need all women. They wouldn't even need most women. They just need a concerted effort to register and vote for women's rights above all else. They'd have tons of men voting with them because women's rights are generally aligned with all the things I believe in, so those candidates would be mine, too. Hopefully, as reproductive rights are taken away from all women across this country women will start to band together to effect real change.

@JeffMurray Agreed. Some rights are taken with no vote however.

@DragonDust By people who were elected or by people who were appointed by elected individuals? That kinda nonsense could be a thing of the past, too.

@JeffMurray Parties. Parties that were elected, that are made up of people.

@DragonDust Whole parties that consistently put forth people who take away rights and harm women, would simply dry up and never win another election. You and I both know the Republican party has shit on the rights of women, gays, and minorities dating back long before either of us were born. This is what I meant by the women would have plenty of men who would vote with them. I would LOVE to be part of a movement that would result in Republicans losing every single election, forevermore.

I can't recall any instance where any comment or post you have made has offended me. The fact that you ask this question means that this matters to you, which is commendable.

@Gwendolyn2018 I used to be a lot different than I am now. I have always wanted to treat people well no matter their background or history. I lived on Indian Reservations and have seen poverty, seen what the government has done to people who have something they want. When I was under eleven I rode on the bus with a black woman who helped my grandmother. I went to her house and played with her children, giving it no thought. I was asked to sit in the front of the bus, with the white people. I told the man that it was much more fun in the back as one would fly out of the seats when going over a bump. There is enough stupidity and violence in the world and I will not give it more access unless I am forced by my principles.

That just sucks

May I ask in what form? And compared to what other sites? If we're including the constant posting of naked women, I'd like to note that only a few members (who are not exclusively men) post them, and the only reason there aren't a couple people on other sites posting similar pictures is only because those sites won't let them.

@JeffMurray In the form of the written word.

@Stephanie99 The other sites?

@JennyRad Yet the the issue has been raised a number of times recently with very little support from the membership, in fact it is the very purpose for the existence of some of the groups. Makes you wonder if the old guys would approve of the ogling of their granddaughters in this way.

The Conservative Atheist group here is timid compare to the nightmare over at SLUG. Such talk would be soundly overwhelmed by supportive feminist men here. I have found that verbally they will stand. But in action it varies. I married a feminist man who did not offer amendments to the definition. He soundly declared his feminism. I waited a long time to find a man like him. He wasn't perfect as men don't have the problems regarding isolated stairwells, but I did make him aware of what it was like to be seen as prey by some men. He became more sensitive to the overall safety of women. I will never find another man like him. He was willing to learn.

@Gwendolyn2018 The question didn't ask if there were any atheist men that are sexist, it asked if atheist men are more into gender equality. Even if everything else was the same, having a much larger percentage of atheist men than religious men who don't want to turn women into incubators should be enough to satisfy the more part of this equation.

@Gwendolyn2018 So there's no evaluation of degrees for you here? I mean if someone said they think black people should only get 3/5ths of a vote and another person said black people should all be owned by white people, there's no doubt they're both racist piles of shit, but one of them is definitely worse than the other.

@Gwendolyn2018 You should know better than most that anecdotal evidence is one of the worst forms.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the focus of the poll. If you're right, and that was what was intended, it was horribly worded.

@Gwendolyn2018 And no, I'm not discounting your personal experiences. If men were shitty to you, that's not right, and it doesn't make it any better or worse if they believed or didn't believe in something generally unrelated. But I also don't think having these experiences should make us ignore aggregate data.

@JeffMurray "less than" depends on perspective. To a man, maybe it's a big deal that a man is pro choice. As a woman, it's at least a important to me how he treats a woman personally. Personal behavior may affect women more than the political belief of one man about choice.

@JonnaBononna There has to be a hierarchy here. If slave owners were super nice to their slaves on a personal level that would really be preferable to someone who wasn't as nice but believed they should have freedom?? This is not simply a "political belief". This is about taking freedom away from women and wholly reducing them to objects. No amount of "being nice personally" should mean a thing if there isn't a fundamental base of believing women deserve autonomy. Personal feelings shouldn't cloud out facts, here. In the results of a Pew research study seen here, 87% of atheists believe abortion should be legal in all/most cases while only 53% of everyone does. This means that the religious would have to be even lower to make the average 53%. So there's a huge percentage more theists than atheists that think women should be reduced to objects. I can't understand how that's not a prerequisite here.

@JeffMurray if they REALLY believe a woman should have choice, they wouldn't treat women as objects. I don't think there needs to be a hierarchy, with women or with slaves. Being "nice" to your slaves doesn't make one better than one who isn't. Both think of them as less than human and own them. I don't think a man who wants a woman to do everything for him is better than a man who thinks he has the right to rape women. Both are pieces of shit, but in different ways.

@JonnaBononna You don't think a rapist is worse than a man who expects his wife to do everything?!?

@JeffMurray both are against the rights of women.

@JonnaBononna I don't disagree, but there are degrees to things. Speeding and murder are both illegal, should we view them the same way and have the same punishment for them? You really don't see that this line of argumentation has gone off the rails here?

@JonnaBononna And also, no, they are not both against the rights of women. If a man thinks a woman should do everything for him, he'd still need to find a willing woman. If a man thinks it's okay to rape women, he doesn't. Those two things aren't even in the same ballpark.

@Gwendolyn2018 But, Gwen, if my mommy would have had an abortion I might not be here. That sentence alone is at the heart of this one because men know that women really are in control and they do not like that control. They also do not trust women to do the right thing.

@DenoPenno Do the right thing? It's shit like that that makes men look bad. Why should anyone other than the person with the fetus in them be the arbiter of what the right thing is?

@JeffMurray I'm not talking criminality. Obviously from a legal, criminal standpoint rape and wanting a woman to be your servant are not the same. But the post is about sexism and misogyny, not criminality. Both the rapist and the guy who wants a woman to be his servant are sexist and misogynistic. Sexism is Sexism, there is no 1-10 scale.

@JeffMurray as the person you claim "horribly worded" the post. There is no mystery as to what was meant, and every woman on the site understood it. It appears that you might not like the wording because you're not finding it easy to spin the meaning to fit your argument.

@JonnaBononna I fundamentally disagree. You really feel that any amount of sexism, even if it was exhibited unknowingly, is equivalent to the worst possible form of intentional behavior (like rape, as you suggested)? In your mind, a man who holds the door open for one sex, but not the other, is just a bad as a man who instead of holding the door, knocks a woman down on the ground and rapes her?

I think the push back between the Ultra-woke and even the progressive left proves there are degrees to these things.

But even if none of this convinces you, you really don't think the potential of alienating allies in men who generally try their best by saying their minor transgressions (which may not even negatively impact women's rights) are just as bad as forcible rape making them think "nothing will ever be good enough, so why even bother" is reason enough for you to at least not display such beliefs publicly?

Am I really alone in thinking "women should do the dishes" and "I'm going to forcibly rape women because they are nothing but objects for my pleasure" are vastly different things??????????

@Deb57 Not every woman understood what you meant, I promise you that. Not only do I have private messages I won't share, but even in the comments you have women that are saying sexism is sexism and there are no degrees, and women who say there are degrees to it and that's why they sided with the atheist men. Don't you read the comments on your own post??

And I don't need to spin anything. I answered what was asked. If you wanted to ask if atheist men can be sexist, too, I'd have unequivocally agreed. But that's not what you asked. You asked if atheist men are more into gender equality.

@JeffMurray I am reading the comments. I'm not interested in you and your private messages. I'm not interested in your condescending attitude. The poll was not about you. I'm always fascinated, though, when men make a situation all about themselves. If you felt the need to jump up and defend yourself about something that was never directed at you, it's evident that it struck a nerve. And rather than sit back and silently read the comments posted here by so many women, you made this about yourself.

@Deb57 You're obviously not because you said EVERY WOMAN on this site understood but there is proof right in the comment section that there isn't a concensus on what you were asking.
I don't know how you think this is about me. I answered your question (as written) and responded to the content of others comments. The only time I talked about myself was when people seemed to lump all men together with something that I don't fit into.
I'm on women's side with almost everything (especially legislatively) and I'm still getting shit on here for making claims that I even backed up with Pew research study results. That may be part of the impediment to progress. Several women here seem to have no problem shitting on allies for having any tiny deviation from their ideal mold of an ally.

Not all men think those things.
I would love to have a woman that has a great job and gets paid according to her skill and value.
I want her to provide exactly zero care for our zero children. And I would love to equally split our combined chores based on what each of us are better and and like to do more (e.g. if she can't boil an egg, I'd be more than happy to do the cooking or if she's interested, cooking with her to teach her my tricks).
I'm perfectly fine moving to her and being with her family. I have very little left anymore, but being with the person I'd love most in the world would be my top priority, whatever that entailed.
My greatest wish is to find a woman who is my ride or die person. Us against the world. Even when we disagree we'd still have each other's back 100% from everyone else's perspective and then worry about working it out when we're alone because no one else will ever mean more to each other. Always trying to make each other look their very best. I have seen couples like that and envy it more than anything else in the world. But to have that, you have to be that.

@JeffMurray Notice your choice of words. I would love to "have" a woman. Do you think of your woman as a possession? Then you say that your woman would have your back 100% in public even if you disagree. You want your woman to fit a mold that you have already made for her. You don't want an equal with whom you would form a relationship based on both your needs and wishes. It is hard to think for oneself without influence of all the conditioning that we grow up with. But, that is not considering women as equals.

@Stephanie99 And I, her back in the same scenario. I think you're reading too much into verbiage. "Have a" is very common shorthand for "be in a relationship with". That's neither here nor there, as I should be dead long before anything like that could ever possibly materialize for me.
Also, everyone has molds for their potential partner, they're called deal breakers. Some people have more superficial ones like 'he needs to have a full head of hair' or 'she needs to be a size zero' while others are based on content like 'they need to want/ not want children' or 'they can't be socially conservative'. Sorry one of mine is that I'd prefer to be in a relationship where we didn't tear each other down in front of other people, I'm such a monster.

I experienced the same recently, it was quite disheartening.

New word. Cool.

@Deb57 It really applied to this guy, who professed feminist views strongly, but who acted like the same old male chauvenist cheater and liar we have come to know so well. Why can't they just be honest?!?

Thank you. It is about degrees. Most people here are answering a different question.

@Gwendolyn2018 Oh for sure, there are plenty of backward thinkers in both camps but sexism is the default in Christianity, Hinduism and many other religions so it's just one more hurdle.

@Gwendolyn2018 I agree, especially about the ones who believe their point of view can enlighten you because you're just a woman, after all. This is never said out loud, but inferred. They always have to have the last word.

@Gwendolyn2018 I share your pain! I think men have been so used to being the authority on everything for so long, that they have a hard time giving it up. It was worse for me in the 1970s as a young piano tuner at a concert venue, when the other crew members often assumed I was a groupie, and I constantly had to explain that I was only there to work on pianos and leave as soon as possible! Also, as a keyboard player in a band, of course, people who didn't know me assumed I didn't know what I was doing, despite having a Masters degree in music. Now I just keep my mouth shut and let my keyboard skills do the talking. It's easier that way, except now they want me to figure out their parts for them. Arrgghh! I can't win.

@Gwendolyn2018 Wow..,.yes, that's awful. How condescending!

@creative51 So? Racism existed before America, but that doesn't mean there isn't a strong association between America and racism...

@Paracosm Its the photo. Why so many of us won't provide one.