@Garban If we would restrict immigration to the USA to only those countries on the chart, our murder rates would likely be much lower, but if you do a true global comparison, our murder rates are much lower than many countries sending immigrants into the USA.

[worldpopulationreview.com]

@Garban You believe that people coming in to the USA from countries with extremely high murder rates will commit murder at the same rate as people coming in to the USA from countries with extremely low murder rates? What is the rationale behind that belief?

@BD66 That has nothing to do with the fact that Republicans refuse to enact safer gun laws, just like a believer, you are always trying to change the subject.

@nogod4me "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." is pretty clear.

@BD66 So you"re afraid of elementary school children? Poor baby.

You are just showing your bias ignorance.

@nogod4me I'm afraid of governments. The USA has never been on this list because our right to keep and bear arms has not been infringed.

4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage Military
9. 2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State
10. 1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges
11. 1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State
12. 1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing
13. 1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea
14. 1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico
15. 1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia

@BD66 Were they killed by elementary school children?

You're a joke.

@nogod4me Is your reasoning really that flawed:

The founding fathers, (who had just defeated the most powerful military force on earth), wanted to make sure the United States Citizens would be protected both from invasion from foreign and our own government if it because too corrupt and tyrannical. That's why they created the 2nd Amendment which concludes with 100% clear text:

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It has been a tremendous success. In the past 246 years, US citizens have never had to suffer under a tyrannical government.

You are all spun up over the death of 19 school children.

How many school children do you think died among these 150,000,000+ people who were killed by governments?

61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage Military
2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State
1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges
1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State
1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing
1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea
1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico
1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia

@BD66 All you have been doing is trying to change the subject, like some childish believer.

The fact is, if Republicans didn't make such a disgusting amount of money pandering to gun lobbyists and actually enacted safer gun laws they would pass. The Democrats would not hinder it or stop it.

Stop trying to change the subject and stop acting like a believer and act like a decent human being.

@nogod4me This is the subject:

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

If you want to infringe on the right of people to keep and bear arms, repeal the 2nd Amendment.

Go for it!

@BD66 That is not the subject, you are being willfully ignorant.

@nogod4me define the subject

@BD66 Are you that ignorant, live in extreme denial, or just extremely bias? You sound just like a believer.

I don't think you realize how disgusting believers are.

The subject has already been defined by the Headline and the Tagine of the post:

STOP IT! Stop Saying "We" or "Americans" or "Congress"... Start F*cking Saying "REPUBLICANS"!

It's long past time to call out these death loving, gun addicted Republicans by name. Stop saying "we", giving Republicans air cover.

@nogod4me They have a picture of a bunch of Congressional Republicans, and he is talking about "Doing Something About Guns" on a federal level. Therefore the issue seems to be:

Taking Federal Action to limit the number of guns in the USA.

The Congressional Republicans do not intend to violate the 2nd Amendment which says:

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The profanity-laden, barely coherent ramblings of the author makes it appear that the author wants to do something to infringe on the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

So it's really a 2nd Amendment issue:

Will Congress honor the 2nd Amendment and do nothing on the federal level to violate:

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Or will Congress attempt to violate the 2nd Amendment and do something to limit:

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

@BD66 If it made them money, the Republicans would convince their idiot followers that they have the right to have nuclear missiles.

I know you understand the truth, stop feigning stupidity.

I think you are a believer.

@nogod4me I'm certainly a believer in the 2nd Amendment. The right of the citizens of the United States to be armed and able to protect themselves is second from the top of all the rights defined in the Constitution, and for very good reason. From 1994 until 1941, we pretty much followed the Swiss model of defense which was:

Go ahead and invade us. Almost all of our citizens are armed, and we are all very good shots.

A small group of well-armed sharpshooting farmers were able to drive the English out of the original 13 colonies.

A small group of well-armed sharpshooting farmers were able to drive the Mexicans out of Texas.

There are plenty of other examples.

If we had gone back to that defense model after WWII, we could have likely saved trillions of dollars instead of wasting 5% to 10% of our GDP every year on "defense" and putting our country on the brink of bankruptcy.

@BD66 Blah, Blah, Blah. I see you are not FEIGNING stupidity.

And not one of those colonists and invading farmers used high-powered automatic weapons. You can tell by the lack of elementary school children's blood.

@nogod4me the Constitution does not say:

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, until some school children are killed"

Luckily the men who wrote it were a whole lot smarter than you.

@BD66 I was born and raised on a farm. My family hunted for food and I learned how to use a gun when I was very young. I like to shoot guns, and, I can say without ego, I am a very good marksman. I would not want the 2nd Amendment to be repealed. However, you are confused, a well regulated Militia stopped a coup instigated by a fascist, racist, monopoly capitalist trying to overthrow democracy. A democratic well regulated Militia would not be fascists, racists, or monopoly capitalists, they would fight for all Americans and democracy. These monopoly capitalists play on the fears, insecurity, and racism of obsessive fanatics in order to destroy democracy. They are NOT heroes, they are traitors.

"The fanatic is perpetually incomplete and insecure. He cannot generate self-assurance out of his individual resources -- out of his rejected self -- but finds it only by clinging passionately to whatever support he happens to embrace. This passionate attachment is the essence of his blind devotion and religiosity, and he sees in it the source of all virtue and strength.... He easily sees himself as the supporter and defender of the holy cause to which he clings. And he is ready to sacrifice his life." Eric Hoffer - Author of The True Believer
That is why I call you a believer, believers do not have to be religious. You are more ignorant and deluded than you realize.

Think about our military, our intelligence agencies, our technologies, and the many, many, military bases in strategic places all over the world. Do you actually think that they couldn’t stop armies of elementary school children invading us from Canada and Mexico? That is not the way it would happen, as Sinclair Lewis once wrote: “When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.” Exactly what Trump demonstrated. Many of the low and middle income Trump Thumpers are folks who have been getting screwed by this system for generations. The problem is they don’t know who their real enemy is. If you have ever read “A People’s History of the United States by Howard Zinn you can see how these fascist monopoly capitalists have used racism and hate to screw the people by dividing them.

The militia you seem to be so proud of is not a militia for the people or by the people. Just because someone is filled with hate, are racist, fascist, and stupid, doesn’t give them the right to overthrow democracy, and a true militia for the people and by the people will stop them. One way is to keep military weapons out of the hands of these insane idiots. These idiots are just serving their masters to end democracy.

If Trump, his cohorts, and his cultists insurrectionists were executed for treason on live television, I would watch it.

The US has a fascist, authoritarian, "Monopoly Capitalism" problem.
State Monopoly Capitalism:
“The main Marxist–Leninist thesis is that big business, having achieved a monopoly or cartel position in most markets of importance, fuses with the government apparatus. A kind of financial oligarchy or conglomerate therefore results, whereby government officials aim to provide the social and legal framework within which giant corporations can operate most effectively.” - Wikipedia

Basically this is favoring the rich and not holding them accountable, even for egregious crimes, while controlling the people using low wages, prison for non-violent crimes and small infractions, and while suppressing their vote and protests. Either wealth will be regulated for the benefit of the people or the people will be regulated to serve wealth.

"Monopoly Capital:
An Essay on the American Economic and Social Order is a 1966 book by the Marxian economists Paul Sweezy and Paul A. Baran. It was published by Monthly Review Press. It made a major contribution to Marxian theory by shifting attention from the assumption of a competitive economy to the monopolistic economy associated with the giant corporations that dominate the modern accumulation process. Their work played a leading role in the intellectual development of the New Left in the 1960s and 1970s. As a review in the American Economic Review stated, it represented "the first serious attempt to extend Marx’s model of competitive capitalism to the new conditions of monopoly capitalism." It attracted renewed attention following the Great Recession." - Wikipedia

Example:
“This is monopoly capitalism in action,” said Marion Nestle, author of Food Politics and professor of nutrition, food studies and public health at New York University. “Whenever Amazon takes over more and more and more of any consumer area, that gives consumers less choice. And now it’s food.” - [[truthout.org]]

Political implication:
“Ever since monopoly capital took over the world, it has kept the greater part of humanity in poverty, dividing all the profits among the group of the most powerful countries. The standard of living in those countries is based on the extreme poverty of our countries.”
— Che Guevara, 1965 -Wikipedia

@nogod4me You have brought up many topics, but let's focus on this one;

I was born and raised on a farm. My family hunted for food and I learned how to use a gun when I was very young. I like to shoot guns, and, I can say without ego, I am a very good marksman. I would not want the 2nd Amendment to be repealed.

Same with me:

Raised on a farm.
Ate lots of duck, goose, pheasant, quail, dove, squirrel
I'm a decent shot.
I do not want the 2nd Amendment to be repealed.

Here's the key text in the second amendment:

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

Now, let's look pick out an enthusiastic Democrat and see what @Flyingsaucesir wants

Here is his "dream list of national gun laws."

1. Ban sale of assault rifles to all except US military branches or qualified law enforcement agencies

That would be infringing at the federal level on the right to keep and bear arms.

2. Fund buyback & decommissioning of assault rifles already in private hands
3. All gun sales through registered dealers, no exceptions

No infringement

4. No sale without background check

If you know how courts operate, this would be infringing on the right to bear arms, because the rules for who passes or fails a background check can be pretty arbitrary. If someone went through a bitter divorce with protective orders, allegations of domestic abuse (Johnny Depp for example) their right to keep and bear arms could be taken away for a false allegation.

5. 15% maximum commission to dealer on consignment sales
6. Two week waiting period on all gun sales

You could argue that this is infringement.

7. Stiff penalty for straw buyers

You could argue that this is infringement.

8. Raise age of legal purchase of long guns to 21

This is a HUGE infringement. A young man, aged 18, can be drafted and be forced to go fight and die for his country, but he could not purchase a gun for himself.

9.Stiff penalty for possession of untraceable "ghost" gun

You could argue that this is infringement.

10. Red flag law allowing seizure of guns from people who demonstrate danger to self or others

Same thing as #4, the rules for seizure could be arbitrary and triggered by a false allegation.

11.All guns stored in a gun safe or locked with a cable through the barrel

HUGE infringement. If someone fears for their safety and wants to keep a loaded gun readily available, they should be able to do so. If someone comes in to their home to kill them, they will not have the opportunity to unlock the safe, take the cable out of the barrel and load the gun.

If we believe @Flyingsaucesir is an average Democrat, then your average Democrat wants to trample all over the 2nd Amendment. If the Republicans give on one of these points, the Democrats will push for more and more points until a US Citizen's 2nd Amendment rights are pretty much gone.

It's somewhat similar to the Abortion debate. If one side gives a little bit, the other side will not be satisfied and stop pushing, so there in no incentive for either side to give. That's very much the same thing with the Gun Control vs. Second Amendment rights debate.

@BD66 No matter how you try to analyze and project, we still need safer gun laws. The reason that it seems that you will lose something is the fact that it has been out of control for such a long time and has gotten to a degree that it never shoud have gotten to.

The NRA and gun lobbyists are monopoly capitalists, they will not stop and they will not play nice. As I said before, they would convince their followers that nuclear missles would be considered Arms if it made them money. Just like Big Oil, they would destroy everything to get what they want.

@nogod4me I will respond in-line:

No matter how you try to analyze and project, we still need safer gun laws. The reason that it seems that you will lose something is the fact that it has been out of control for such a long time and has gotten to a degree that it never shoud have gotten to.

>> That goes back to my original comments. The murder rate is much lower than it was 30 years ago (See the photo below). School shootings are even more rare. I pulled up the numbers a little while ago. I believe it looks like this:

~15 children per year die in school shootings.
~40 people per year are killed by dogs.
~70 people per year are killed by bees.
~850 people per year are killed on bicycles.

If it became worldwide news covered 24/7 on most news outlets every time someone was killed by a dog, by a bee or on a bicycle, people would be clamoring that something must be done about dogs, bees, and bicycles.

The NRA and gun lobbyists are monopoly capitalists, they will not stop and they will not play nice. As I said before, they would convince their followers that nuclear missles would be considered Arms if it made them money. Just like Big Oil, they would destroy everything to get what they want.

>> I'm not arguing on the merits of Big Gun Manufacturers, or Big Oil, but the same could be said about Big Government. They will destroy everything to get what they want, and have done so repeatedly throughout history.

>> There are really two different debates.

1. What should be done to prevent further gun deaths.
2. Who should do it.

The problem with a solution at the federal level is the 2nd Amendment which specifically says:

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

The Constitution literally says the federal government cannot infringe on the right to keep and bear arms, so even if the Democrats had a 65% majority in both houses, any legislation they might pass would be shot down by the Supreme Court.

That leaves it up to States and Cities to pass their own laws, which is why we currently have a complete mess of contradicting laws as you go from state to state.

@BD66 Do you think there are people that should not have a gun? I hope you have enough common sense to answer yes. If the answer is no then we have nothing more to discuss, you are either a NRA stooge, a monopoly capitalist, a fanatic, a fool, or all of the above.

I have worked with inmates that we couldn't trust with a paperclip.

There are people who should never have a gun and therefore must be prevented from getting guns.

When my mother gave me my first gun, a rifle, she told me as she handed it to me, "What ever you shoot, you eat." In other words, she did not want me to take even an animals life for sport. I know how to handle and carry a gun, I have been around guns all my life. I have never pointed a gun at anyone or thought about shooting anyone, that would be insane. I have a large family and lots of cousins, I can vouch for them that they have the same mindset. We have never had a gun accident.

However, as you already know, there are people who want to shoot others, are looking for reasons to shoot people, they practice shooting at human targets, they are fearful, self-rejecting, assholes filled with hate and violence. Do you think they should have a gun?

I don't think we will abolish gun ownership, that is a NRA scare tactic, however, if the NRA and the gun lobbyists keep up their insanity, it will inevitably force major change.

We definitely need gun control.