What is the best way to get people to see the gradients in the world around them instead of just a simplistic "this is right, that is wrong” view of the world?
How did we get so binary and divisive? how can we fix it? Is it our media? our political system(s)? our education system(s)?Oligarchs shaping our attitudes and reality? a combination of factors?
6
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stinkeye_a
Level 8
May 17, 2018
1
Right? That's what I was thinking. We dropped the ball somewhere in the past with one of our social systems. We need to fix that or this social decay will get worse.
Wow! I wish there were more gringos (no disrespect whatsoever) like you!
COGITOERGOSUM
Level 6
May 17, 2018
1
No worries. Thanks for the compliment. There are a lot of gringos like me. Hopefully you'll see us all show out in November. In the mean time let's have a conversation about what went wrong and how we can change it. I really want to know your thoughts on this matter.
In psychological terms: “Overdetermination”: The phenomenon is caused by multiple and different causes.
- Nature: Humans are primates, and all primates (maybe all animals) tend to think first (and only) about themselves and their close family, and to ignore the realities and needs of other animals;
- Nurture: Unless a powerful event shakes our minds, we will probably believe whatever we were taught to believe;
- Prejudices: For example: The “preservation prejudice”: We prefer to believe an idea if that idea is convenient to us, with total disregard of its inherent truth or falsehood
- Inertia: It is easier to go on believing what we have believed all along. Change is, often, painful;
- Religion: Our god is the only god, and if we are his/her children, we are always right, and, of course, everyone else is wrong;
- Politics: [I hope administrators doesn’t erase this item] Plato wrote that corruption and immorality flow downward, from those in power to the people. “People are corrupt because rulers are corrupt”. If Plato was right, then we (in present day USA) are in BIG trouble!
- Pure selfishness: Who cares what others think, feel or need. I am important; my feelings are important; my country is always right because it is my country; to Hell with everyone else.
Like Schopenhauer and other philosophers, I am a pessimist: I don’t think this “order of things” will significantly change ever. Generally speaking, “Haters will be haters”; Racists will be racists; Morons will be morons…until judgement day at 9:00 PM. However, there are things that can, and should be done to help minimize/reduce the problem: Teach, teach, teach…and teach important values (respect, love, tolerance, peace, equality, sympathy and empathy&hellip
to young generations; Buy the right video games for your children; Vote for the right candidates… and many more things. [But this reply is already too long.]
Disclaimer: English is not my first language. Please forgive any errors.
Because what you are asking for requires critical thinking, time, effort and desire: all things that are in short supply.
kmdskit3
Level 8
May 17, 2018
3
How do we refill the collective tank on critical thinking and desire?
@kensmile4u I try and spread that 'gospel' as best I can.
To many people think they are right these days no matter what side of the fence they are ....
Simon1
Level 7
May 17, 2018
2
I agree. It seems like we either stopped caring about what others think or some other unidentified social movement is occurring. What do you think explains the lack of comparative thinking?
@kensmile4u Facebook and politics . Facebook there's to many groups with the same ideas agreeing with you echo chambers . In real life you learnt to get on with others with different opinions and compromised . Politicians are using this to divide and conquer not new I know but now it's a bit intensified ..... Oh and we are taught to remember facts in school and not think.
Isn't that sort of thing pretty hardwired into people to begin with? I don't have a link but I do remember seeing some studies that show that people who tend to see things as more black/white/good/evil trend significantly conservative and religious and those who are more shades of gray are often more liberal. But I've certainly met some very doctrinaire liberals. That sort of study is pretty hard to construct in a way that doesn't equate correlation with causation.
seaspot_run
Level 7
May 17, 2018
2
ah, been reading some good stuff on that, "If You Believe It, It's Truer," [google.com] and there was a better, older one that i can't find now, something about how we process info we already agree with as if they were facts, ah, [google.com]
I agree there are intrinsic thought patterns but IMO they can be modified to some degree by education or indoctrination. Consequently our social systems can be modified to attempt a correction. Do you agree?
@kensmile4u That's a hopeful thought. I feel like I grew up in a system where I didn't feel complete stifled in my spirit of inquiry but I was also privileged.
Im not sure everyone is capable of learning the complexities of life. I think some people naturally need an authority to decide for them. Possibly moral laziness, or just not capable of understanding the concepts.
I could be very wrong though.
Stealthbeard
Level 5
May 17, 2018
2
I agree that everyone is not the same but we do have standardized education to a certain extent. Therefore we should expect a modicum of critical thinking in the population. Perhaps they just stopped caring about it or each other. Thanks for all your thoughts.
ah, the knowledge of good and evil, lol. the Dao is good for this imo, if the Bible is not...accessible to someone, for whatever reason. Say if one has accepted the definitions of the religious or whatever--Paul's "wolves"--so that It is now closed to them. But it is condemned nonetheless, as "judging others" etc
bbyrd009
Level 7
May 17, 2018
2
Sorry I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying religion is needed to fix the problem?
@kensmile4u no, that religion is condemned in the Bible, in many places. Basically every preacher version of a Bible story is wrong, off somehow. Read too literally usually, right. It never says anywhere that we go to heaven after we die, in fact quite a few passages demand otherwise, "no Son of Man may die for another's sins," on and on. "no one knows where they go when they die." "all go to the same place." it's just Dao, Dialecticism, raised to an interactive art form.
Find the point and the "problem" of lack of empathy in others goes away; and they all come to the same point, basically. religion has nothing to do with it tho rly.
putting yourself in the right frame in the stories ends up a kind of mirror. if the Bible is closed to you bc preachers then the Tao works too. that's all
I think a lot of people don't want to think hard about complex issues. They want easy answers so they can move on. If it's not affecting their life directly, they feel they're wasting their time trying to figure it out. So they accept what they heard someone else say, especially if it's simple, and go with that.
Tomfoolery33
Level 9
May 17, 2018
2
do you think they avoid complexity out of sheer laziness? lack confidence? or something else?
@kensmile4u Laziness, lack of confidence in their intelligence, not really caring enough--all kinds of things mixed together.
I find working with scenarios helpful. This is what I do in the classroom. When teaching ethics, I start by asking, "Is it okay for me to take pens from work to do grading at home?" I get unanimous "yeses" on this one. Then I increase the number of pens, and perhaps change the reason I am taking them Each time, I say, "Is this okay? Why or Why not?". We always end up with some UNethicalv situation, , and then we try to figure out WHY this choice is unethical when an earlier one was not. Same thing could be done with other situations. Let's develop a common stereotype of a woman on welfare with multiple kids. What are our assumptions about her? Is she to blame for her current situation? Is she still to blame if the school she went to didn't give her as good an education as others got? Is she still to blame if she dropped out of school to care for a sick parent or sibling? What about if she dropped out to have a baby? She doesn't have, currently, a skill set that would allow her to get a job that pays enough to sustain her family. How should she get those skills? If she gets training/education in some form, who should pay for that? How will she pay for child care? ("She should not have HAD a baby" is not a permissible response in this case, because it describes a reality that does not exist in this scenario.)
I teach management, and I use scenarios/examples (usually made up on the spot) to illustrate concepts and ask students to make decisions. "What if we change the situation this way?" "What if we change the situation that way?" This demonstrates the complexity of many decisions and the multiple factors that influence them. I don't know if it will actually change anyone's approach to decision-making, but at least hopefully they think about a decision a little more before returning to the comfortable status quo.
citronella
Level 7
May 17, 2018
3
I want you to be secretary of education! 
This is exactly the kind of thinking that should be a standard requirement for receiving a high school diploma. What class do you teach?
@kensmile4u I teach Introduction to Business (" What happens in marketing? In human resource management, finance," etc.), Principles of Management, and Organizational Behavior (in-depth analysis if people's behavior in organizations, including assessing individual, group, and orgaizational levels). Actually , I teach at the college level.
Reason with them.
Hitchens
Level 8
May 17, 2018
2
Reason doesn't appear to work with many people at the moment. Reason is essentially analysis of the gradients along with the fundamentals issues. That's why i'm questioning social systems related to reason.
@kensmile4u. Well we could move directly to KKgator's Human Earth cleanse Rapture, the systematic permanent removal of all Human life,...which incidentally will dramatically improve fish stocks.
We can't.
KKGator
Level 9
May 17, 2018
3
I agree that is our current situation. Any thoughts on fixing it?
@kensmile4u Nope. Humans suck. The planet will be better off when we're all off it.
@KKGator Those are my exact words ("Humans suck".) But now that I read them "from the lips" of another thinker, they (the words) just doesn't seem right. There are a lot of under-developed apes out there, yes, but there are also a lot of humans who do not suck. I guess this forum proves it.
All of the above mentioned factors. It is the way humans are and it can not be fixed, just dealt with. IMHO
jlynn37
Level 8
May 17, 2018
4
How do you see us dealing with it?
@kensmile4u That is above my pay grade and job description. However it seems we have always been able to deal with it.
@jlynn37 I've never seen a shit show as bad as this one. I think we need an intervention!
People no longer think outside the box and in addition would rather just hear a sound bite or see a tag running along the bottom of the television screen. Many people don't want to take the time to really think anything through so will rely on the opinion of someone they think had the answers. I swear that is how Trumpster got elected and how he keeps his core group
AmelieMatisse
Level 8
May 17, 2018
2
So you think the pace of life is overwhelming the average person's ability to be comprehensive?
@kensmile4u nope. I just don't think they give a shit
Psychedelic drugs!
And I'm not kidding. Mind-expanding drugs have a profound affect on those who take them. Imagine if we could sprinkle a little into the drinking water down South. Southerns would embrace science, they'd accept differences, and they might look outside the family reunion for their next date.
Benthoven
Level 8
May 17, 2018
4
Hahahaha family reunion dating.
Combination for sure. Our political system is binary, so that contributes a lot I think. Our economic system contributes to a win/lose paradigm also. And then I suspect there is a component of human nature that is easily led into dichotomous thinking to start with.
skado
Level 9
May 17, 2018
4
Thanks for the good wisdom.
It will require a reeducation of the population starting with the children,colleges,universities and the political parties. We need to remove the extremes of both parties and move toward the center and employ compromise in law making. Removing the dark world of politics like the billionaires and their foundations ,corporations treated as persons,public funding of candidates, term limits, requiring the public to receive the same benefits that the Congress votes for themselves, all of these would be a good start. The media needs to return to what they did best being the watchdog of the government.
Marine
Level 8
May 17, 2018
2
All good thoughts! Thanks
Can't be fixed. It's the new normal.
Troll society.
At least until some cataclysm forces a reforming. Even then, it's the human condition. Hard to overcome.
Slappy_Longarms
Level 7
May 17, 2018
2
Could we regulate fake news? For example there are already journalistic rules of ethics. Should we force political operatives masquerading as journalists to add a disclaimer to their shows? Should we add getting a C grade or better in Civics education as a requirement to get a school diploma? Can we get corporate out of politics by repealing Citizens United? These are just my thoughts. do you have anything to add?
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