just because there is not a charismatic leader for democratic socialism-- does not mean its a bad thing

@bklynite53
Good ideas are always relative to the society, culture, geography, nation's character, laws and so on. What works in one society may not work in another. The Arab tribes were known for their warring tendencies, they never united even against their worst enemies, they were tribal. Experts still debate if a democracy can ever take root in Arabic, African countries. Democracy cannot be imposed, people who must realize that they must unite, compromise and self rule. Many peoples are not ready. Just look at what happened in Egypt. People died, revolution happened, Muslim Brotherhood was elected but began going extreme, a dictator stepped in as they always have. Pakistan's history is marred by dictatorships since independence for 72 years in spite of being next to the world's biggest democracy - India. China never had a democracy in its entire history.

The United States is not a progressive society like Sweden, Norway, Denmark or Finland are. We are not open minded. The Nordic societies have always been progressive since the times of the Vikings. The Viking had given rights to women to seek divorce, fight alongside men since the 6th century. We are still debating if we should allow women in combat forces.

What looks good on paper and books is not always suitable and good everywhere. Democratic socialism will not happen in the United States and yes, it is a bad idea for our society. We cannot handle it. We are not ready. Let us elect a woman president first and talk about socialism next.

@St-Sinner I left out a key word in my comment— I think you caught it but I just edited it anyway. I can not disagree with what you are saying for the most part and yes let’s put a woman in the White House , except for the part where you say democratic socialism is a bad idea for our society. We are in our infancy as a society, a culture a nation. You compare us to societies hundreds of years older , not a true comparison. Half our country might not be ready for it, but the other half is. And quite honestly to say socialism does not exist here and we are just a capitalist country is wrong. Medicare,Police dept. fire dept. emergency services like ambulances snow removal and hundreds of other entities are all forms of socialism at its best. I think that capitalism that can be somewhat controlled and socialism that can be somewhat controlled can work together. Maybe I’m just a dreamer but I have young grand children that I would like to see live in a better and more just society.

@bklynite53

The Democratic Socialism as it is currently being marketed by Bernie Sanders with free healthcare, free college with just taxing the rich and tax and spend policies will not work in the United States.

Of course we should have better and sensible social programs such as better help for the society's helpless, downtrodden and the ones who cannot pull up by bootstraps as the Republicans want them to. We can do better ambulances, compassionate (but not free) healthcare, free or cheap toll roadways, better infrastructure, certainly better education etc. But we must do it piecemeal. in small doses so even opposition can swallow it. Bernie is calling for a revolution. A revolution in America? In a rich country where people prosper, economy is humming for the last 5 years, the world's largest consumer market? We do not have the ingredients for it here. He is a wrong man, a wrong messenger and certainly has an Utopian idea that is not accepted by voters after his 6 years of rants... except for a small fanatic group of his followers. The nation has given him a cold shoulder.

The reasons you gave about the old vs new civilization etc. are correct. But that makes my point. We are not ready. We cannot rise and say I want a 3-car garage because my neighbor has it. We cannot have what Sweden and Norway have because we are not them. We are a capitalist country because the levers of Democracy are largely controlled by money. Who do you think the legislators listen to? Why do you think even good democratic senators and congress members in Conservatives states are afraid to vote against guns? The answer is the money the gun lobby - NRA will spend to defeat them. With a high public support of 86% for gun control, our representatives have not been able to pass simple background check for 30 years. Is it not money influence?

I am waiting for a leader who can rise people to his feet with his charisma, can catch fire wherever he goes, is savvy about getting things done slowly and smartly under Republican's noses with winning majority in both houses. I was hopeful about Bill Clinton but he fucked. Obama again raised my hopes but he wanted to be a nice guy kissing Republican asses for 8 years. Who is our hero? The Conservatives got their King Cyrus in Trump. We hate him but the Conservatives are extremely happy. Why can't our own leaders make us happy? Why are they nice?

@St-Sinner I can see I’m not as intellectual as you, and thank you for not making digs. It seems there are a lot of people that frequent some of the groups on here who are so full of themselves it’s disgusting. I like your style. Me I’m just really a sarcastic clown from Brooklyn. But I do like to engage in debates on many subjects. That is fun also.

@bklynite53
We all have viewpoints.

My point here is we have to be pragmatic. We can dream but must have a sensible plan. See the facts on the ground about everything... relationships, politics, career, ambitions. I was always afraid of dreaming because I did not want disappointments. So I preferred to assess situations, planned my route to goals and tried to get as close as possible. It has served me very well. It irks me when grown up people talk about unrealistic, shiny ideas without a regard to what the realities are.

I went to grad school in New York, worked there for 18 years and have lived in each of the 5 boroughs, Some good, some very bad. I am very familiar with the Brooklyn lingo and personalities. I always liked it. I missed one big thing though... I ate "Häagen-Dazs" ice cream for years thinking it was a nice German ice cream until someone told me, you idiot, that is a company started and run by some guys in Brooklyn... lol

@St-Sinner one of my friends fathers worked for Haagen-Dazs in the 60's before it was commercially sold in markets. only sold to restaurants. we ate it all the time in the summer. had a great childhood growing up in Brooklyn in the late 50's early 60's.

@bklynite53

I can sort of imagine Brooklyn of the old times, I watched the movie - "Brighton Beach Memoirs" I used to spend a lot of time at Coney Island at the Nathan's original hot dogs shop.

@St-Sinner Did you ride the Cyclone and go on the Ferris wheel? After I moved to Cali in 79 whenever I went back to the old country first stop was Coney Island — 2 hot dogs and fries at Nathan’s of course

@bklynite53 I remember going to the Ferris Wheel, do not remember the Cyclone. This was in 1987. I remember Nathan's curly fries, weren't they curly? How do you like Cali? I though NY and Cali are two different personalities.