The whole reason we do need military grade weapons was illustrated beautifully by your concern for a second civil war. There's no such thing as an "Assault rifle." Much better argument than most though.

fill the jails and the mental hospitals and still you will be the most violent country on earth

@markdevenish Educate the people and violence will be reduced....Incarceration / mental health placement help

Weapons require makers and operators. They are inanimate objects with no ability to function them selves. Your argument is not valid.

take the toys away from the boys before someone gets burnt or has an eye poked out

@jayneonacobb Neither is your opinon

@AzVixen52 you watch toy story too much if you think inanimate objects have agency. It's not my opinion that inanimate objects don't have agency, it's a fact.

@jayneonacobb Toy Story? I think you are the child watching cartoons, not I.

You have to be mentally ill to want to commit a senseless massacre. It's not a slight against all mental illness. It's a legitament health concern with broadly sweeping implications. Better health care may very well have prevented many of these tragedies from occurring.

Do you have a fire extinguisher? If so, how often do you hope to use it? That's exactly what a gun is for if properly utilized. Taking peoples gun rights away might as well be taking away their right to a fire extinguisher. I can make bullets, casings, primers and powder for pennies on the dollar in my home. Charge as much as you want, it won't stop the market. Besides, that's called price fixing and it's illegal.

@jayneonacobb you are talking a lot of ... well, bullshit. Do you call all criminals mentally ill? or just or just the shooters, or mass shooters? These people are not "mentally ill" in the sense of an illness that can be treated with medication and therapy. Not as a rule, this just smears the people with mental illness. As Dani Ma hints at, suicide is a MUCH more likely scenario for those. Now do you say they are mentally ill of the Muslims who walk into places with suicide Bombs? Or are they "terrorists"? The language used in this is only serving the interests of the Gun lobby. The latest shooter was not, as they call him even in the non fox media: a "troubled youth who loved guns." He was (still is) a youth fed on a culture of hate that he completely endorsed. He was a hater and ... sociopath. With super easy access to super weapons.

@ZebZaman whose rights do you think the bill of rights refers to? The governments, or the people's? I'll give you a hint, they expressly provided that answer at the beginning of the preamble. You may have heard of it. It starts with "We the people." I bring this up because I've already answered all of those questions adnosium.

@ZebZaman i disagree . violent acts are a form of mental illness. there is no such thing as evil . their behaviour is detrimental to the survival of the species. that's it that's all

@markdevenish as someone with a mental illness, I take seriois offense. What you're missing is that the mentally ill are usually the scapegoats for those who willingly plan out and murder large groups of people. A white supremacist group took responsibility for the shooter's training. He was a white supremacist and mentally unstable because of that willing brainwashing program.

Mentally ill people are terrified of hurting someone other than themselves. Our ultimate goal is to blend in with society so they don't see us as a threat, when we're clearly only a threat to ourselves.

@Hugh first of all, it is a legal requirement for me to have a full and complete understanding of gun law. That makes me an expert on the subject, despite your opinion to the contrary. This makes me more qualified than you to weigh in on this subject. I'm an EMT, but I don't argue with doctors about health. Your analogy is false.

Secondly if there hasn't been evidence for cause and effect after the 600+ years of firearms existing, then there never will be.

Finally the bill of rights is inalienable and unabridgable, that includes the right to keep and bare arms. You don't have a right to infringe upon others rights. Your stance is unsupported on all accounts.

You and everyone else in your camp have never been able to make a constitutional or valid argument for gun control. If you did you would have your way. You can't though because you have no leg to stand on in this debate.

The presence of a gun does take away the need for rational humane thought

Let's get some nukes... I mean nukes don't kill people, people kill people

@Ad4hubby who made those nukes? Who deploys them? People.

@Mcflewster the presence of a gun saved my life more than once. It also put at least one violent criminal behind bars so they couldn't further harm the general public during their incarceration.

@PeppermintDreads because he can't argue this point well, or at all?

@jayneonacobb it works the exact same with the guns

@Ad4hubby that makes no sense in the context.

@Hugh: Bravo! Well said.

@Hugh no, you find it impossible to argue against my superior knowledge and expertise on the subject. It's ok, you are trying to argue from feelings and ignorance. That usually causes the feelings your having when you have blind faith in something. I can help you accept reality, if you let me. You seem smart, that's not a dig, it's true.

Who's rights do you think the bill of rights was referring to? I'll give you a hint... "we the people."

@PeppermintDreads are you going to contribute meaningfully to the converstation, or just troll?

I got that from a moron on facebook yesterday... "out of my cold dead hands" he said... It's beyond me...

@Ad4hubby it means "I will die to protect my rights, and yours." Rather noble, actually.

You don't live here, you can't vote here, you don't get a say in what happens here. What plan do you propose to eradicate firearms from the most well armed society in history? What ever it is, it won't work. It's my right to own guns. It's not your right, or anyone else's to infringe upon that.

But then, what was it that happened in "gun-free" Sweden a few years ago?

@jayneonacobb You know what you're absolutely right. In your country it is your right to own a gun and with a bit more paperwork it is in mine too, But I'm happy to have my 'freedom' impinged upon to save a life or two.

@jayneonacobb so the shooter in florida is noble... nice

@ipdg77 a killer will try to kill regardless of the tools available to them. Besides, there is a global black market of guns. I can litterally buy a gun in every country on the black market if I wanted to. It's easy, it's cheaper and it is a fact of life. I'm guessing you're from the EU or Australia. Those countries still have murder and assault. Look at the muslims for examples.

@Ad4hubby that's not what I said at all, you're taking my response out of context. I could do the same with what you just wrote m, but I don't because it's dishonest.

@jayneonacobb Everybody here has a say, you don't like it go some where else. I told you once to be civil, I'm not going to tell you again.

@mkeaman It wasn't Sweden, it was Norway. And shit can happen anywhere. But considerably less of this shit happens in all nations that are counted as "developed" and the vast majority of "undeveloped" as well. Why are you people from the US so wedded to your gun killings? It is totally beyond me. Defending it with arguments that make the mind boggle. Maybe guns are your true religion. And $$$.

@MikeFlora I am. I'm just pointing out a fact. I'm still answering their questions and points. I even consider them. The fact remains that they still have no legal say and technically foreign influence on policy is collusion. Collusion is illegal. And so to spare anyone breaking the law I need to point that out.

not happening. guns will plague america for ever amen

That is part of my plan. Instead of going head on with the NRA, try to work with them let them work on the training and licensing part

I don't think anyone in their right mind likes dead children. That's a piss poor argument, it doesn't even constitute an argument.

@jayneonacobb How is that a piss poor argument when the UK and Australia put lives first?? I think it's a damn good argument.

@Ad4hubby it's not the same thing. They still have violence and murder too, they just lie about it more. Look at the muslim no go zones, or just muslims in general. You think the massacres in Paris and London weren't gun violence? That's delusional.

That's a little extreme, Nobody likes dead kids

@daniellaws It's not that we are fine with them, we can't get rid of them, we've lost control.

It's a collective american sickness

@jayneonacobb you are done.