Even if that is true, one of them is going to be your president. Don't pretend they are the same. One of them thinks he can override the Constitution for a third term. Do you want to live in a democracy or don't you?

And not voting is equivalent to voting for the Orange Whore!

@LovinLarge They are both sell outs to large corporate interests and wealthy donors. Both are whores and neither will increase democracy, neither has committed to dismantling the electoral college for example. How are they not the same, other than repulsiveness of personality?

@Normanbites One thinks he is entitled to a third term, does everything in his power to limit voting, promotes political violence, favors red states over blue states and promotes division like we have not seen in more than 150 years. The other doesn't. If you still don't see it, it's because you don't want to.

@LovinLarge So the choice is

1. An orange clown who blatantly flaunts and abuses his position and sells out the American public with an in your face IDGAF attitude.

Verses

2. A pleasantly mannered fellow who surreptitiously sells out the American public out of the public eye and lies about how and why they are doing it, helping you believe all is well when it is not.

And you think one is preferable to the other ..... you are right, I'm still not seeing it.

I will say if the DNC really wanted to win, they should have rigged their primary for a better candidate.

@Normanbites Let's see your evidence to support your claims about Biden.

@LovinLarge I was largely disappointed in the Obama administration's attempt to appease insurance companies, Republicans, and other Deep Pockets with the compromises on the ACA, especially when they had a mandate for "Change you can believe in." What changed? Anything significant?

What is your evidence to support Biden other than "He's not Trump."?

@Normanbites Nope, you saying shit does not constitute evidence. You've made these factual claims:

1. Biden owes "too much to PAC's and wealthy contributors";
2. Biden is a sell out to "large corporate interests and wealthy donors";
3. Biden won't "increase democracy";
4. Biden "surreptitiously sells out the American public out of the public eye and lies about how and why they are doing it".

Support them with evidence or you and your claims have no credibility.

@LovinLarge
1&2. [investopedia.com]
3. Biden has failed to support the notion of medicare for all or abolishing the electoral college, both are popular progressive ideas.
4. Above donor list and the fact he and Obama botched the ACA badly, which pleased the Republicans and Insurance companies no end.

So AGAIN .... what do you have or are you just flapping your face?

@Normanbites

1,2. Showing that Biden has wealthy and corporate donors is not the same as proving he owes too much or is a sellout to them. All or almost all federal politicians have large donors. Even Bernie had a SuperPAC. You haven't proven your claims because they're not true.

3. You're conflating democracy, a form of government, with progressivism, a political ideology. Medicare For All has nothing to do with democracy and the Electoral College is mandated by the Constitution as part of our democratic process. You haven't proven your claim because it isn't true.

4. A donor list does not by any stretch prove Biden has sold out or lied. If he had run a campaign without a donor list, then his success would have been suspicious. The ACA was not botched and you haven't proven that it was. You haven't proven your claim because it isn't true.

I can understand you getting testy because you were called on your false claims, but if you hadn't lied in the first place, you wouldn't have found yourself in this position. Not only do you and your claims have no credibility, all you do is complain with proposing any solutions. You're also rude.

@LovinLarge 1,2 .... apparently you believe donors give large sums of money expecting nothing in return. This only proves your naivete, not Biden's lack of complicity.

As for Bernie's SuperPAC "February 2016 article quotes National Nurses United Director RoseAnn DeMoro as saying, “It’s not a super PAC. It basically lacks the appropriate definition at the FEC.” Your lying does not prove me a liar .... quite the opposite.

3. When most of the demographic supports a progressive agenda, no conflation is involved.

4. The ACA was clearly botched when the rules for how to get coverage when you could not afford to pay was not made clear and simple. Most people in that predicament thought they would be fined and or jailed for not buying health insurance. This was certainly not true, but explaining how to get coverage was so confusing most such folks wound up backing Trump as a result. So in case you missed it again, I'll repeat "BOTCHED, BOTCHED, BOTCHED, BOTCHED, BOTCHED!!!!!

If the DNC really wanted to win, they would have rigged their primary for a better candidate. .... Seriously, a guy shows up 1/2 way through the primaries, barely says anything and walks away with the nomination!!! How is that not rigged??

@Normanbites It is hilarious that you think you repeating something makes it true. It astounds me that someone your age hasn't the faintest idea what evidence is. You don't even provide the link to your citations. You are one of the less intelligent members I have run into here, you have no credibility and a nasty temperament. You are what I refer to as a "time waster". Blocked.

@Normanbites Thanks for the link to investopedia. I understand your disappointment with the current system. I also agree with your end goals. But I think changing minds in the midst of a stubbornly divided electorate requires patience. My strategy is to keep pulling for the larger change we want tomorrow but be encouraged by the incremental change we can accomplish today. Biden represents that incremental change today. I think sitting on the sidelines and watching this tug of war does not help bring change in the direction I want. So I grabbed the rope and started pulling for the team who is trying to go in the direction I want for tomorrow. We could use your help. The larger team always wins in tug of war eventually.

@kensmile4u
That is how we got to where we are today, choosing the lesser of two evils offered.

One day, it occurred to me, as I'm sure it will occur to most when they live it long enough; Choosing the lesser evil is still choosing evil. The only "good" it does is to slow the progress toward inevitable inequity.

From now on, I choose what I think is right, even if I have to stand alone to do it.

@Normanbites Peaceful coexistence of people is about compromise. It always has been. It always will be. But I respect your right to grudge if your candidate did not make it on the ballot.

@kensmile4u If you want to vote for evil, that is your right, it is your vote. But mine will not be keeping it company.

@Normanbites I am disappointed that most people do not understand that the Obama administration only had control of the house and the senate for two years. In order to appease the blue dog Democrats they had to include the insurance companies in any plan to try to get health care to every American. They were hogtied from doing any meaningful legislation after spending two years on getting the ACA passed and faced with a Republican Senate that openly said they would stop any legislation promoted by Obama. It took us over a hundred years to get in the mess we are in so I think expecting any president even with two terms being able to correct all of it is far from an intelligent expectation. Our government has three branches and allowing the Republicans to take over three of them means we have a deep hole to climb out of.

@Lorajay Variously attributed; "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step in the right direction. Then keep doing it."

I sure have. I make many and got banned 5 times for fighting racism and anti-Semitism there!!!

@Admin Not from conservatives. Circa 2007-2013, the anti-Obama posts were relentless.

Note that my comment was made before the question was edited to include the word "presidential" and before you had to be a member of this group to comment.

@Admin
Look at my answer for your answer.

@Admin
I acknowledge I could be wrong about this, but it appears to me the DNC (as they admitted in court) feels no responsibility to honor the primary voters’ wishes. I strongly suspect they picked Biden before the votes were cast, just as they essentially admitted they picked Hillary in 16.

@Diagoras
Thanks.