@powder Hey, out of curiosity, what's the problem with having a 'Flu vaccine shot?
I have mine every year without fail, it takes about 3 minutes, protects you from the worst of the Flu symptoms and all get maybe a slightly sore spot on your upper arm for about 24 -48 hours afterwards.
Safety FIRST and Foremost my friend, safety first and foremost not only for yourself but EVERYONE else as well, time to stop being one-minded in my opinion since we are all in the same boat these days.
Though I still object to the idea of having a mobile phone just so the Government can ' keep track of me and my movements' since my 'movements are as the same as they have been for the last 19+ years anyway.

@powder Well I, like so many others during this Pandemic, would much rather take the "50%" chance on getting a Flu Shot and not getting Flu on top of Covid as well, PLUS, knowing that I HAVE done my best to try to ensure the safety of both myself and everyone else.
After all, IF we don't try to look after each other then who will?

@powder Then, imho, the operators of those nursing home deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the Law for endangering their clients at least.

@powder A surgical face mask is only effective for the time it is worn, after that it carries every bug that the wearer breathed out until it IS destroyed.

@Triphid ie. it mechanically protects others from your bugs and if as you suggested Tony it is sprayed with Glen 20 it will be infection free. I'm with Powder on the masks issue.

On flu vaccine have you had yours this year because the over 65 vaccine is not yet available in W.Victoria! I've been waiting at least a month - even the Royal Melbourne Hospital couldn't help.

@FrayedBear A surgical mask should never be sprayed any disinfectant since the waerer will be inhaling the fumes directly and unadulterated.
I use Glen 20 as a disinfectant spraying medium but nowhere near or on my face, even thaough it is a quite effective disinfectant and germicide, etc.

@Triphid I'm talking of after initial use.

@FrayedBear ANY surgical mask IS a SINGLE use ONLY.

@FrayedBear, @powder Hey, I had 2 Uncles serve in WWII one at Tobruk and then in Europe, the other on the Kodado Track and then through the islands as well.
I also had a Great-Uncle who was at Gallipoli for the whole time of that bloody, useless, needless debacle and Slaughter so I respect our Diggers as much anyone can.
Being vaccinated is NOT, imo, a Fascist action/regulation, it IS for the safety of yourself and everyone else, and the age of the person, etc, should never matter.
Up until I was approx. 17, I suffered regular bouts of either severe Bronchitis or Pneumonia from as early as 6 months old, to quote the Family G.P. I "was at Death's Door many times and pulled back by my sheer will to live," and it ain't no pretty sight nor experience that I'd want to go through ever again.

@powder Do you place a value more on your OWN choices or upon the life and safety/health of whom ever you want to have visiting rights with?

@Triphid we are not surgeons.The air paramedic the other day was wearig a filtered cloth 3M mask which was worn all shift through as many patients as he saw.

@Triphid m8 you posted earlier that Glen20 kills COVID 19 virus.

@Triphid m8 when are you going to read what I wrote? There are 2 separate flu vaccinations - one for the over 65's & one for the under 65's. To e it wouldbe logical for @Powder to be required to have had the over 65 versionto protect the elderly in his father's aged home!

@Triphid Have you had the ordinary flu vaccines or the over 65 one - I'm curious because it is not yet available in W.Victoria?

@FrayedBear I was about the first in line when the Flu vaccines for this year arrived here at my G.P's Surgery.
They actually notify people as soon as the vaccs arrive so they can make an appointment.

@FrayedBear, @powder I'm NOT trying to put a 'Guilt Trip' on you or anyone else for that matter BUT IAM trying to explain to you that perhaps yielding a wee bit of your rights/beliefs at this time is a good thing.
Scenario 1), You shower, get dressed in fresh clothing, sanitise your hands, put on a mask, go out and get into your car or catch Public Transport, go to visit your friend/relative in the Nursing Home, correct?
Now how many people, friends or strangers have you crossed paths with during that time?
How many are just Carriers of the virus, no symptoms, just carriers?
They may well have breathed within range of you, the virus may well have attached itself to your clothing, you may have even breathed it in, you may just pass it on to the person you are visiting as well, all these are NOT beyond the realms of reality btw.
Scenario 2), you may not be carring the Covid virus BUT you may, unknowingly, be carrying the Flu virus and that may travel from you to the one whom you are visiting, that person is elderly/disabled/ have a low Immunity response or no Immune systemat all and 'BINGO,' they now have either the Flu virus or even worse on them, they then pass it on the next person, unknowingly, then the next, the next and the next and so it goes on and on.
That, Sirs, is, in simple terms, how viruses travel, infect, etc, etc.
Caution over personal rights and beliefs take precedence over EVERYTHING else in times like these in my Opinion as a Nurse with many, many years of experience dealing with such things.

@FrayedBear There is NO difference between the Flu Vaccines, it IS the same Vaccine for everyone despite age, etc.

@Triphid is that the over 65 vaccine?

@Triphid please have word with my pharmacists Terry White as to why they have had me on a waiting list for the over 65 vaccine for the last 6 weeks and why last year theysold & injected me with a vaccine claimed to be for the over 65's?

@powder Since you seems so stuck on your opinions, etc, and reasoning with you and them seems a waste of time and effort, then I suggest that we agree to disagree and leave it at that.

@FrayedBear IF youare over 65 or have a Centrelink card then the PBS system pays for it anyway, your G.P. should know that as well.

@Triphid Because of discrimination & bad practice by the aboriginal practice that i used to attend I now have to see a doctor 200 klms away. It is cheaper to get my shot through the chemist than a 400klm return journey.

@Triphid why do you refuse to thr yhe research and acknowledge that there sre 2 vaccines for flu - one for ove= 65 & & one for under?

@FrayedBear So, are there also 2 separate strength doses of other vaccines as well, vaccines for Measles, Rubella, Tetanus, Tuberculosis, Typhoid, etc, etc, etc, then?
So where, precisely, does this vast Medical Knowledge of yours come then, please tell me?

@Triphid Because for several years I've been older than 65 & pushed into having the over 65 vaccine which I have been told by medical people has further protection for the age group. There again it could merely be a plot to commit senicide - a question that I have asked of this government but it has not denied or responded to!

As for "vaccines for Measles, Rubella, Tetanus, Tuberculosis, Typhoid, etc, etc, etc, " I haven't a clue. I simply renew my tetanus & pneumonia evey five years."

Where does your knowledge come from? It is my understanding that you have not worked as a nurse/paramedic for a long time.

@FrayedBear Though I have been retired, so to speak, from nursing for many years, like most nurses I do keep up with everything to do with it.
I have subscription to the 'Lancet,' the Registered Nurses Journals and just about EVERY other Medical and Nursing Journals that are published.
In my honest opinion here, you seem to be somewhat stuck in the idea that you are being conspired against continually by almost everyone and everything around you, perhaps, just perhaps, you might like to seek out a bit of Psychologic Councelling for this perception you seem to have.

@Triphid Not surprising if youdogmatically assert your knowledge without referenced proof. You have still not responded to the issue of there being an over 65 and an under 65 flu vaccination.

@FrayedBear Since YOU are the one making the claim in the first place then onus to prove that claim is on you, not I.

@Triphid now you are becoming irrational. If you have proof that there is no such thing as an over 65 flu vaccine give me the evidence so that I can take it to those pretending to sell it to me. You claim to be the medical expert.

What the fuck r you - certainly not helpful.

As for your accusation of paranoia I suggest that you look at yourself and your projection.

@FrayedBear No, not irrational at all, YOU made the assertion/claim, not me. therefore YOU, as the Claimant MUST prove your claim, that IS how it works.
So, take a chill pill, dig for the evidence and then put up or shut up, it IS that easy.

@FrayedBear And I am most definitely NOT paranoid, however and in my opinion, given some of your rants and raves I do wonder about your mental state from time to time.

@Triphid what would you like - a recording of my pharmacist saying "the over 65 flu vaccination hasn't arrived yet, we'll put you on the waiting list"?

But seeing as you adamantly cannot admit to such a vaccine's existance I having taken the trouble to enquire of the NSW website on the issue. Seemingly in your state Tony stocks will be released today but like W.Victorian supplies I would not hold my breath waiting for their arrival today.

@Powder should enquire if such a shot will help safeguard the elderly he is visiting & if not why not? Without immunity from over 65 viruses he could unknowingly be a carrier.

@powder I'm not disagreeing with what you say I'm simply suggesting further illogic & endangerment by insisting on the wrong vaccine being enforced. It's like saying "you will take aspirin everyday to safeguard against stroke" then actually giving people panadol.

@powder Further information has now come to hand which suggests that the over 65 vaccine merely has a stronger dose of the antigen plus some other substance to strengthen the immune system and not additional flu type antigen. So it makes no difference to you.
What I find curious though is why the over 65 version comes out long after the other one. If the aged are most at risk you would think they would be protected first.

@FrayedBear Odd that since we've had supplies up here since the middle of last month with re-stocks due to arrive here on the 15th. of this month as well.

@Triphid Perhaps you're not as disadvantaged as you think but there again do those in Sydney know what their other hand is doing whilst they masturbate with other's lives?
I'm just pissed off that no one properly explained to me years ago what the difference is in the over 65 vaccines and compared to the under 65. I know one year it was very uncomfortable but cannot recsll if it was when I transitioned to the over 65 version.

@powder they have just released new rules for visiting aged homes in Victoria & the rest of the country -

[cota.org.au]

@powder good luck.

@powder I'm still waiting for Mallee MP to get back to me about wearing masks to prevent spread to others. That was about 5 or 6 weeks ago!