I hate suicide. I especially hate celebrity suicides.
There's obviously a huge mental illness problem in this country. Many states suicide rates have jumped up 30% this century.
The reasons that celebrity suicides scare the hell out of me:
- They are happening more frequently.
- What about the "normal" people going through hell and see these rich, famous and talented people give up? I don't have the data to back it, but I'm sure there are spikes in suicides in times like these.
- Their kids. Being the kid of a celebrity can't be easy in the first place. Going through that, puberty, the publicity that the suicide and funeral will generate.....
I'm going to stop at 3.
Author's note: I struggle with anger management and depression. I have repressed memories about to come to light and I have been emotionally unavailable my whole life. My thoughts on this come from a person who understands a thing or two about struggles.
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doug6352
Level 7
June 9, 2018
1
OH geez. Do you expect someone with say a terminally painful illness to stick around for you too? Or is it just because you can't see the pain it's not there. Out of sight out of mind...
When you have severe depression, your brain convinces you of things that aren't true. It convinces you that you are dragging people down and that the people you love would be better off without you. There are many very empathiv responsible people that have committed suicide. I suppose you can choose to believe that those are selfish people that only thing of themselves, but I think you are wrong about that. Depression is a disease as much as diabetes or high blood pressure are. Severely depressed people are very sick and struggling every day to stay alive.
I know (clearly) you don't understand it but your level of ignorance to this is part of the problem Doug.. When people who haven't experienced suicidal thoughts or feelings learn not to judge others for feeling that way we will have a chance of helping people.
How is it possible the person ending their life is selfish? Is it not the community around them that should be more ashamed for not noticing or supporting them ?
my comment above is NOT this comment, lol. You don't roll up on someone with mdd and say 'oh, stop being selfish!' and then get them to straighten up, lol. cmon!
Or, like a woman with untreated PMDD has a 30?40? chance of offing herself. The key is to be aware of wtf is going on and to get on a care plan that works. i also recommend 'kindness in all things'
@rafferty A lot of people don't say anything about their plan to do it, so no one knows. That was me last year, so it would be hard to reach out to someone to help. I ended up quitting my job that I hated because it was the main reason of my depression and have moved on obviously.
What about the negative effects of said suicidal person has on the family? What if the family is the reason? So selfish though?
My first suicidal ideation started at eight years old. I’ve had hundreds since. I thought about my friends and family, but the pain was too much to bear. I finally got on the right meds after twenty years of trying. I speak up to my husband and family now. It still does not destroy the intense, painful, and self-flaggelation this disease brings. Oh, and one more thing, Fuck guns!
@Heidiwho2212 Apparently thinking about your friends and family helped because you are still with us.
@doug6352 And apparently you suffer from being an apathetic, offensive jerk.
@Presley1209 a care plan is a plan for recovery and management. I do not mean a plan to do it.
@AdorkableMe I'm definitely not apathetic! LOL It is very irresponsible behavior to bring a child into the world and then evade your responsibility to the child by killing yourself. No amount or severity of insults will change my mind about that,
@rafferty Sorry if I misunderstood. ?
Suicide is a very upsetting and baffling thing for people to cope with, but my view is this:
There are different kinds of suicide. There are reactions to a major crisis, there are people who live with unendurable mental suffering, some are spur of the moment, others a cry for help that goes wrong. Looking for signs, getting people to talk and get help, and loving them could (or not) make a difference. We need to be aware of the state of mind of people who are suffering.
Other suicides are a very rational choice where the individual concerned is exercising their right to live and die on their own terms. They may realize they are at the pinnacle of their life, they have done what they wanted to do, and want to check out on a high. Others may have a degenerative diagnosis and are choosing not to suffer. Others just want to control the way they die. We may suffer, but we also need to respect others’ free will. I have no intention of living in a situation where someone is cleaning my arse and I am wearing diapers, and bed no patronized by carers who think I don’t know my own mind. I will choose when I go, and that will be my choice and it should be respected. I am not there yet, but decrepit decline into an old people’s home is not what will be what happens to me. Fuck that.
Livia
Level 6
June 9, 2018
9
I agree. At 75 years of age with stage 4 Lymphatic Cancer (no pain or discomfort yet), if I opted to shorten my life to avoid the inevitable pain and suffering that is likely to come, it would a logical thing to do inasmuch as I am likely to die anyway. If I did so, it would be quite a different issue than someone in their twenties with severe depression.
Carers turn up in the media for all the wrong reasons. I once trained with a group of would-be carers and their attitude to older people was appalling. I fear for the people under their 'care'.
Wonderful!
There was an article i came across not a year or so ago that said a study was done on people with depression & found their cortisol levels weren't being processed like "normal" people.
Remember....EVEN GOOD STRESS RAISES CORTISOL! This explains why someone can appear to "have it all" and still check out.
I really hate people who judge those who've checked out as selfish. No one owes anyone else their existence or right to choose what they do with their own bodies. NO ONE. NOOOOO ONE!
Qualia
Level 8
June 9, 2018
11
What about their children? I think it is unfair to kill one's self if there are kids under age 17 or 18. Kids often blame themselves, or wonder why they weren't worth sticking around for.
Why use terms like owe and selfish? So like a parent of 4 young kids, for example, shouldnt try to walk it back? Or is it just 'shit happens'? If you can be made aware of things like stressors and cortisol, then people should at least try, conditions can be managed. Someone in agony, with terminal cancer, is another story. Its all situational. We as observers can never know whats up. One thing that is sure is that kids get pretty fucked up for good losing a parent like that, so why can't that at lest be considered without it being an 'owe' thing?
@Captnron59 I'm the same. Tried suicide at a young age and have had a very high regard for life ever since. But I understand why people do it.
@rafferty You are right on target! I personally know of two cases where a person had decided to end their life because, "they couldn't take it anymore". Their adult children were angered and wanted to know why that person didn't reach out to them. After the 2nd attempt the children cut ties and forbid that person from seeing grandchildren so as to not emotionally scar them for life. After 3rd attempt I got the person to self admit to a behavioral center to try and get to the issue in their life. Alive now 5 years and no thought of suicide even though still not allowed visits to grandchildren.
@citronella That's why there are questionable methods that leave it open to interpretation, because the parents didn't want the kids to blame themselves. Also those with the luxury to have peace of mind that their kids will have a safety net might be more inclined to follow through.
If I ever have to check out know exactly how to do it without anyone ever having a clue.
I've already warned mine that if I come down with alk adenocarcinoma like my husband did won't cling to the bitter end the way he did.
Society is changing.
You used to have communities that were largely the same, within the community. Sure, one person might be a farmer, another a publican, another a blacksmith - but they lived in the same village, they knew each other, they were 'companions'. They may have been poor, but those they knew were also poor. They understood each other's position, and related to it.
That's just not the case now. Modern society is less personal. Less 'understood' by those in it. Everyone has heard about everyone else - but doesn't actually KNOW or UNDERSTAND those other people.
This adds to the stresses. Being poor is even harder to bear when you're always hearing about bastards flying in their private jets, driving their Porches and partying through the night - the sense of 'injustice' adds to the pressures you face.
Yet it happens to rich celebrities as well. What can be more soul-crushing than knowing your life is falling apart when you 'should' be living the 'perfect, celebrity life' and you're surrounded by people who you should be like, who seem to be having so much of a better time than you? There would be the sense of 'This SHOULD be heaven, so why is it HELL?'
I'm not surprised more people are killing themselves, to be honest, at all levels of the social ladder.
ToakReon
Level 8
June 9, 2018
9
I lost an 18 year old nephew to suicide; he was not outwardly depressed and nobody knew why he did it.
Even with going through that...I’ve been on that edge too many times. I didn’t want to really die, but wanted the pain to stop. Only once was that physical pain, but I actually had a plan that time. I did tell someone and got help. Still if it becomes unbearable, I’ll be there again. Nobody has the right to determine that I must suffer on and on. I’m open about it to my kids. My daughter asked for the chance to talk me out of it, and she has. That helps, being able to talk about it.
CarolinaGirl60
Level 8
June 9, 2018
9
"I didn’t want to really die, but wanted the pain to stop."
This sums it all up. If others on their high horses could just UNDERSTAND THAT ONE THING!
@Qualia Exactly. Living with depression is exactly like living with chronic pain. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, but it never really goes away. When it ebbs, you know it'll be back. Sometimes something can mitigate it, but you know it'll be around forever. Eventually, you just want it over with and you don't care how - you're just done living with it
Ive heard that cyclical depression bouts like that can be altered or removed with microdosing with magic mushrooms, and they do legit trials on qualified candidates. finding out about it couldnt hurt, and why not, right? Up front, youll get crazy ass people saying 'it resets the brain!' and whatnot, but ive heard that .25 micrograms sets it up. Not that I know about that kind of stuff. But they do drug trials on it in controlled conditions.
@rafferty I had not heard that...thank you, I will check out that option.
@rafferty Aw dude! I was with you till the magic mushroom shit talk.
@buzz13 its not shit talk i guess if you have nothing to lose, yeh? im just saying. its what ive heard. maybe it is shit talk, maybe not. sounds like an excuse not to try to me, lol.
@ghost_warlock completely agree
@rafferty, @CarolinaGirl60, @buzz13 It's still in early stages, but there is research being done into treating depression with psilocybin that is showing some promise
The brain/mind is a very tangled web - you pull at 1 "thread" and it pulls at 1,000 others, and it tangles all of them. This is why mental health is so hard to figure out, especially depression.
What I have gathered about depression and suicide, after talking with others, is that often times the depressed person DOES see suicide as a logical decision, especially when they are in that dark place. While those of us on the outside just don't get how you could come that conclusion. Those who are depressed can view suicide, going out on their terms, the ultimate act of "getting control" of their lives.
BUT, that over simplifies it. As I said at the start, the brain is a tangled web - and sadly there is no easy solution.
JimmyOneLeg93
Level 5
June 9, 2018
7
Obviously you have not been depressed enough to even think about it, I have and even planned it out last year. I don't hate anyone who commits suicide because I understand it. There are times in ones life where its hopeless, you feel like a loser, a burden to others and would be better off dead, so before you say its a mental illness stop and think of what they might have been going thru. It was something so unbearable they simply could not go on. You did not walk in their shoes so you have no idea what was going on in their mind. I say this with a kind tone and not to offend, just want you to look at it differently is all.
Presley1209
Level 7
June 9, 2018
8
Hi. Thank you so much for your reply. I agree with everything you said. Until you have been depressed, really depressed, you have no idea what goes on in a persons head.
@Heidiwho2212 Yes! I have s sister who doesn't understand why I got depressed with the job I had and always said " Be glad you have one". Coming from a woman who doesn't have to work. Its infuriating that people don't get it and think its easy to just get over it.
My life is my own. I shall do with it what I want. Therefore, I will end it when I had enough. Please stop preaching and concentrate on managing your life your way.
Spinliesel
Level 9
June 9, 2018
8
Yes but theres a difference in choosing when to end your life on your own, knowing you have the choice and can make it yourself, and feeling so hopeless that you think its the only option.
Im a supporter of assisted suicide, and giving people that choice, however its heartbreaking to me to see people, children even, that are struggling with mental illness and feel so alone that they feel its the only choice they have.
How can you hate something you knew nothing about ? Their choice, their lives and their circumstances. Leave it with them !
VAL3941
Level 8
June 9, 2018
5
What depressed me, the United States living under an authoritarian president with mean spirited Republicans and followers. Every person has their own demons. Money doesn't buy happiness I know that. We can seek help and for me as a political activist working against Trumps policies and Republican legislature, and working for our new candidates I feel better. I have to be in the fight, won't give up or give in.
vnufall
Level 7
June 9, 2018
6
I lost two brothers and a cousin to suicide so understand that up front. I think our society has become a problem for many, many, people who look ahead and see a bleak future. I get that. I, too, do not want to live in the future I see but, at the moment, I think that future is unwritten. Kids and creative people are more spontaneous so aren’t waiting.
It’s as much about group mental health as personal mental health and we have precious little of both. USA has gone off the rails and Americans have always been an overly exhuberant group. I think we are suffering the lows of a crash in our collective bipolar mania.
If we truly wish to make life worth living then we must undergo a rather rueful change in our approach to it. One much less capitalistic and far more communal.
Mental illness seems to be a malaise of first world cultures, and worsening (or at least becoming more apparent) as we advance... We are doing something wrong. Maybe we're losing touch with what we're evolved to be? We no longer strive to survive — perhaps we need that?
DaveMania
Level 6
June 9, 2018
6
@Storybook life has lost its value. Look at what we focus on after natural disasters...how much it cost. Its bigger news than loss of life.
That's very perceptive. I wonder what we were evolved to be and how we've missed our purpose. Perhaps it is social cohesion, people committed to each other as part of the survival of the group.
@Storybook How can you call suicide 'brave', bravery is an act of helping others in distress and risking your own life at the same time. I can't recall any act of suicide of someone fed up with life that benefited society in entirety. Was Jim Jones brave or Adolf Hitler brave? Assisted suicide for someone terminally ill might be considered brave but just because you can't take it anymore is borderline cowardliness.
@brentan I'd suggested it's as simple as hunter-gatherers. Our natural environment was, until very recently, a challenging battle for survival against large predators and hostile tribes. We used our wits and considerable intelligence to keep ourselves and our clans alive. Now we languish in weird social bubbles with a whole lot more brain capacity than we strictly need.
Human minds are universal, regardless of what "first world/third world" bullshit we impose on them. Itsintellectually dishonest to think a former child soldier or a honor killing survivor is taking it in stride, and wouldnt need care, because theyre from the "third world".
@rafferty Bravo!
@rafferty Completely agree. I should make it clear that I'm not at all suggesting that mental illness is unique to privileged societies — there are people in desperate situations worldwide who get their heads fucked with horrifically.
It's interesting, though, that depression is rife in a culture where we are — basically — pampered, and where life is far less stressful than the hand-to-mouth existence that we arose from. Myself; my partner; virtually every person I know socially... All have suffered depression and anxiety. Why should that be so in a culture where our needs are met so readily?
Why? everyone is going to die & their lives are one of the few things a human owns, bought & paid for.
I plan to take myself out when things go seriously south one day.
GregGasiorowski
Level 6
June 9, 2018
5
I've often told my family this "It's not the cigarettes that will kill me."
I don't think they understand nor want to.
Several months ago I read an article in our local paper about 'suicide'. I wrote a long letter and made some posting here on this site about this. My late partner adopted out states Death with Dignity program when she discovered she had a brain tumor. The BIG problem is that people are not given choices for when they are confronted with the problem of living a life of suffering and being allowed to die. Only 5 states have the Death with Dignity program and more and more people are clamoring for it. 2 countries, Netherlands and Switzerland have a program offering Euthanasia. Only Switzerland offers it to outsiders. This is a long and complicated issue. Not all suicides are wrong and everyone should have the choice to end their life when they feel the need. There used to be a group called the 'Hemlock Society'. It is now called "Final Exit Network'. [finalexitnetwork.org]
JackPedigo
Level 9
June 9, 2018
7
I read Final Exit when I began Hospice nursing, to get the opposite perspective.(of Hospice philosophy). Hospice in my state focused on quality of life, and did advocate for anyone who chose to stop treatment. Best we could do without Death With Dignity. I hope it comes to all states; we need to have that option.
@CarolinaGirl60 This administration tried to stop the program that was being considered in DC. They failed and it is there as well. For me we need more and I am lucky to live in a state (part of it anyway) that would support such a move.
Two reasons (and more) have contributed to the epidemic increase in suicide rates in the US - (1) the easy availability of guns. The incidence of suicide is much higher in households where there are guns. (2) circumstances having to do with the economy and the quality of life. For many people wages have been stagnant and obstacles to a good quality of life have been rising. The costs of health care, education, food, gas and other products and services keep rising while almost half of the population lives below the poverty line.
TerriCity
Level 7
June 9, 2018
6
But, hanging seems to be the preferable method from Kate Spade and A.B. to Robin Williams and Chris Cornell. I think the problem is the easy availability of scarves, belts, and ropes.....
@SkotlandSkye oh, ho ho! No, guns are actually super popular in murder\suicides.
@TerriCity a longtime family freind and his friend a coworker of his, got into a coke and booze filled fight over football, with guns, one shot the other in the head and killed him, and the survivor killed himself, both were vets, and it was over in less than a minute. I went to school with both of them.
Is there a correlation between being a celebrity and number of suicides? If there is, I'll pass on my '15 minutes' then.
MsDemeanour
Level 8
June 9, 2018
3
Hear is how Pandora would answer that question are there more suicides because more people are killing them selves or are there more suicides because more suicides are being reported because the information is in greater numbers?
azzow2
Level 9
June 9, 2018
4
I struggle with clinical depression and repressed memory as well. I understand the struggle. I see suicide not as someone who has given up, but someone who has lost their battle against mental illness. That's what mental illness is: a battle against a mind and emotions that betray and torment you constantly. The state of affairs in this country doesn't do much to help. We need things to look forward to. The mentally ill who continue on MUST band together and support each other. If no one is going to help us, the strongest among us need to organize and help make the world a better place for us. I, for one, do my best to fight and advocate for better mental health care. I know it's hard. I hope everyone who is able to fight with us will. We can do this.
Ravensasha121
Level 5
June 10, 2018
3
I believe media plays a role, but with no easy answers. Are other people inspired by school shootings, terrorism, suicide, etc. by seeing/hearing about others doing the same? I tend to think so.
Humanity4all
Level 6
June 9, 2018
2
It's a viable option. What else can I say. Perhaps "Having it all" isn't all it's cracked up to be. I think being able to have a private life would be preferable to living in a goldfish bowl. After all, they are just human.
rainmaker-47
Level 5
June 9, 2018
2
Well, it is certainly a tough decision that requires courage. I am somewhat baffled by your differentiation between celebirties and mere mortals.
PontifexMarximus
Level 8
June 9, 2018
2
desperation or resignation, 'courage' seems an odd word choice. some macho seppuku nonsense?
Sadly, it's true that when it's a celebrity it brings to light something that so many grapple with every day. It's something I've been challenged with for years, especially decades ago when there was even more of a stigma surrounding mental illness. My hope is that it opens up another avenue for people to talk about it.
bleurowz
Level 8
June 9, 2018
2
Maybe the preservatives, pesticides, hormones, etc in our food are causing mental problems.
nicknotes
Level 8
June 9, 2018
2
I believe over exposure to wifi and cell phone signals are a big contributor as well.
I better log off quick then.......@IrishGypsy
I guess for celebrities who suicide they get to the point they have all the money they could ever need, they have fame, they have status, but they still have the mental anguish. And they look at it all and wonder what more can I do, they can have anything money can buy but money doesn't buy love or peace of mind and when you have it all you can't kid yourself that any of the things you have been able to achieve is the answer.
For the rest of us there is always the hope that a better job, more money, whatever will make things better, for them they know it hasn't worked and they've run out of ideas, stuck in a goldfish bowl, not knowing if people care about them or just the public persona which they see as divorced from their true self. The rest of us have more reason to hope than they do!
Kimba
Level 7
June 9, 2018
2
Great insight. The last thing out of Pandora’s Box was hope. It can spur one to great things but can also rot and cause great emptiness.
I caution you to use the word “normal” people. Celebrities are normal people with talent, high aspirations, and the insatiable need to be famous. Money and fame doesn’t create happiness. Contentment and inner peace create happiness. Anyone who obsesses over celebrities or feel their suicides are more important than the roughly 125 successful suicides in the U.S. each day (according to a recent article I read). When you compare your life to their life you fail to miss the beauty in your own life and therefore don’t experience happiness. And lastly the kids. Suicide does not end your suffering. It just passes it on to those who you left behind. Celebrity kids aren’t different. All kids are impacted and more so because of the financial burden on the rest of the “normal” family. I too recently went through a horrible time of anxiety, depression and suicidal ideation with no official attempts. Unless you’ve been there you do not know how scary and powerful those thoughts are. Suicide in general is an epidemic. The government does not put enough funding in place for mental illness awareness or assistance and there is a lack in mental health workforce. My advice. Ignore the celebrities. Why do they matter to you. Take care of your own happiness and things you can control. I volunteer on the suicide hotline. You are obviously passionate about the subject. Advocate for the cause, not ruminate.
Edub82681
Level 3
June 9, 2018
0
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