Off course not. Where is you're positive and constructive input? If you don't have any I'd say you're purpose if not a free exchange of thought instead it's oppression of people who encourage free thinking.

@Stig The World is what it is not what would had been. You can't change the Past so Fuck Off!

@GipsyOfNewSpain When you write these kind of disrespectful comments, then you are making it clear that you don't have any interhuman respect and appreciation and give people reason to wish the US should be stopped. You're a sorry individual.

@Stig The US (as you glorify it) should be stopped!!! History on my side. But think about it "genius" there will be no US without Religion!!!! Ouch, Double Ouch. Somewhere in the other side of the world there are those who think the World will be a Better Place without the US. Ask any Native American that is not an apple... they will tell you and they are in this side of the world. By the way... in case you miss it... or others not in tune with the term of apple... An apple is a native ameriKKKan that is "red" on the outside but "white" in the inside. You go ahead and keep dreaming of a world that never existed... keep dreaming, and I am the sorry one. He, he, he, ha, he, ha. The World is Not what "would had been". Stop Dreaming and face Reality. Very Different... Isn't it? I can take your rationale and say... What if there was only One Religion to all mankind... Wouldn't that be Perfect? The Perfect Religion? The Perfect Life under a Perfect World of One Religion? That is how Stupid you sound when you wishes on a world that never existed. Do you wanted it with Unicorns and Dragons Flying? How about Fawns? Live in this Life... is the only one you got. About the "perfect world with the perfect religion"? ...Take a pick... It is Not Happening!!! Just like your World without Religion Never Happened!!! Want to run me again about your definition of Truth and Fantasy? Triple Ouch!!! Don't tell me... You are a Nazi? Ouch, Ouch, Ouch, Ouch!!!!

@GipsyOfNewSpain Well I'm not a US person - so you're making incorrect assumptions. I'm just a contemporary citizen of the world hoping that all people will have a happy life.

@Stig I am going to quote you... "When you write these kind of disrespectful comments, then you are making it clear that you don't have any interhuman respect and appreciation and give people reason to wish the US should be stopped. You're a sorry individual." First mention of the US was by you... in these posts between us. But I am a citizen of the world myself. If the US was Perfect to my eyes I will be the first to tell you. Since I have lived in the US and Outside of the US. Honestly I got nothing against you. I simply accept the facts. Religion is here... been here and will adapt and do whatever is necessary to continue being here... done it for thousand of years so... History on my side, for now. If they need to reinvent jesus to be gay because the whole world is gay... guess what? That is what they will do. Live long and prosper. When church was not the driving force, was the excuse but religion been present as a means to control the masses since we came down of the trees. You want a world without religion? Destroy this one and start again from scratch. But there is no guarantee the ugly head won't pop out again. Peace, "contemporary citizen of the world". quoting you again to end.

@GipsyOfNewSpain That you can read into that comment that I glorify the US is very strange because it is nowhere stated that the US is a good thing (or a bad thing for that matter) - it only states that you're certainly not giving anyone outside the country reason to think higher of it more than they do now. So there is no judgement about the US in my comment - only a judgement about you. I have nowhere made any direct statements what I think the world should be or what I want it to be - I have only expressed some free and thought stimulating comments to see what people thought about them. Lots of people have made honest and fair comments and I have given many likes. You have offered misinterpretations and angry and disrespectful comments as well as insinuate I'm a Nazi. I encouraged you to bring some positive and thought stimulating input. At least you used the word Peace.

I think your question has the answer and proof in it. Christmas is surely a religious holiday. Thanksgiving is a secular holiday celebrated in North America as appreciation for the harvest. 4th of July is a secular holiday celebrating the US independence from the British empire. I looked up Kwanzaa to be sure I got it right. It is "a secular festival observed by many African Americans from December 26 to January 1 as a celebration of their cultural heritage and traditional values." Surely there are more religious holidays but these three secular holidays just prove that we don't need Religion to have great holidays.

I'm not in agreement with your view that religion only has minor inconveniences. The number of people who have died in religious wars over the last 2000 years is likely in the millions. Just today Islam and the US are tied into a religious war where for instance some 4000+ people died in 9/11 and thousands have dies in the war that is still raging in the middle east today - not to mention that the US has built up a debt of some $21.5 Billion dollars - more than $50,000 per citizen - to a large degree this debt was created to pay for the wars of the last 16 years. With the prospect of the US going bankrupt in the next couple of decades unless the course can be altered - I believe the impact is huge and is evolving to be a threat to a healthy United States.

@Stig Well, I’m no theologist, but I did see a movie once called Born on the 4th of July. It was about a guy who was an actor playing a Viet Nam vet. I don’t remember the plot too well, but this character was a Scientologist. So I think the 4th of July came from that religion. Again, I don’t recall exactly because it’s been some time and I did a lot of gas huffing in those days.

I will concede that religion is not a minor inconvenience. In light of your comments I’m going to upgrade it to a mild inconvenience. Appparently a bunch of people died, but the way I see it they were going to die anyway. So it’s kind of a wash.

I consider my comment retrospective analysis. This is helpful for any life situation so one can learn from the past and set up the future for better and more desired outcomes. If you want to call retrospective analysis for wishful thinking then that is your prerogative. From my comments everyone can evaluate and take appropriate action - for instance reduce the impact of religion going forward. Your comment is negative, abstract and offer no inspiration as what to do doing forward. I hope you chose to be more positive and constructive in your next comments.

@Stig hey stig I didn't want to come across as being rude.....the way I see it isn't it more useful to criticize the belief systems of various religions than talking about the effects these beliefs systems have.....I feel as long the people still have faith in the system itself trying to point out pros and cons of the system has no effect on the faithful...but I could be wrong....I just don't feel like analyzing the effects are as useful as reasoning why their religions are illogical in the first place so they reach the same conclusions on their own.

I think there would be fewer assholes if people weren't being taught religion.

Agreed.

Yes - we are where we are. Any good pointers on the way forward?

@Stig Karma is the best thing I can think of for fair condsideration, what goes around comes around, and the Golden Rule, treat others the way you would want to be treated. Many of these type of sayings are good for most people even though they had their start in religious beliefs. Pick what is good and trash the rest.

What religion are you referring to? There was order in the Greek empire as well as the Roman empire before Christianity. Other places might not have been as developed.

@Stig Are you saying that the Greeks and Romans had no religions?

@creative51 Oh, I wasn't aware that you were a first hand witness at the inception of each and every religion. Thanks for your non-biased insight, as fair and balanced as Fox News.

@mattersauce If I were then you would not have to ask.

@Stig If you saw a reply that made any sense, would you be able to recognize it or does it appear in a foreign languate to you?

@mattersauce Thanks for continuing the conversation. Honestly - I do not understand your question.

@Stig Fair enough.

Assuming you're referring to my question here: "Are you saying that the Greeks and Romans had no religions?"

I was referencing your comment that "There was order in the Greed empire as well as the Roman empire before Christianity"

I was not referring to Christianity alone, but all religion in my original reply. The Greeks and Romans had religion (just not Christianity as we know it today) so my comment would include the pantheons and all religions. Religion created order at a time when there was policing people was not a reality.

If two people met on the road all alone and both had valuables on them, what would stop one from killing the other and taking everything? The fear of a painful eternal afterlife was what did for many people. The eternal afterlife and consequences depending on what you did in life was fairly common amongst all religions.

@mattersauce I was not there at the time - would love to travel back in time to experience it - exactly what religion and order was in place at the time but the evidence we have is that there was lots or order and organization in Greek, Roman, Chinese and Indian societies. I've personally ben to all these countries had have seen what we can experience today. The impression is that there was lots of intelligence, structure and order at the time.

To your example of two people meeting on a road and wanting to steal from each other. The would not happen because they were either brothers, friends or part of the same tribe where the actions you suggest were not to their advantage.

@Stig I'm sorry but I comletely disagree that crime doesn't happen when the two parties have a link. Most people are murdered by someone they know.

@mattersauce I did not say that it does not. I just gave you examples of situations when relatives do care about one another. You just have a problem that I showed your generalization not to be true.

@Stig What?! No you specifically did NOT show me that it was not true. I gave you an example and you tried to counter with "people related or in the same tribe wouldn't do that" and I explained that most murders are committed by people who know each other! You can't even follow along a simple conversation:

Your text:
To your example of two people meeting on a road and wanting to steal from each other. The WOULD NOT HAPPEN because they were either brothers, friends or part of the same tribe where the actions you suggest were not to their advantage.

My Text:
I'm sorry but I comletely disagree that crime doesn't happen when the two parties have a link. Most people are murdered by someone they know.

Your Text:
I did not say that it does not.

Your grammar aside, you said exactly what you say you did not say. If you can't follow along your own line of text then I really don't want to continue this conversation where I'll spend most of my time explaining the history of the conversation to you to try and catch you up.

To recap, this is the second time I've had to lay out the conversation for you and there won't be a third.

@mattersauce I guess we all know by now that you've lost it....

We can talk about capitalism in the western world, communism in many parts of the world, ancient ways of China and India.To me that does not really matter so much in this question. Capitalism has some good properties on determining price via the markets and allocating capital based on it's best use, but also suffers from bad human behavior like lies, exploitation and suppression.

Now that I read your point 4 again I guess I misunderstood you. What you really meant was not society from an economic perspective but from a social one. More like how society in general treats each individual. I actually agree with this also to a certain degree.
I read empathetic society and immediately thought how in a capitalist system empathy is disregarded. So, my fault for the misunderstanding.
I also agree that there are good and bad properties of Capitalism.

@Dietl I appreciate your sentiment. The world and its topics are extensive and complicated to we therefore need lots of bandwidth for a proper exchange. Our few short sentences here or on text can easily lead us to misunderstandings.