As a group of mostly open minded people, I am surprised by the number of persons who are openly hostile toward anyone who has a different opinion, outlook, or attitude. As atheists, agnostics, and skeptics, we are, as a group, more intelligent and educated than the population at large, and should be more open to questioning and challenging all of our beliefs and ideas. I am honestly beginning to wonder why some people use social media if they cannot seem to avoid being so easily offended and hateful.
Hmmmm, bitchy, passive-aggressive post followed up by patronising insults to anyone who responds negatively. If you keep having negative experiences on social media, ever thought that the problem may not lie with everyone else?
Why should someone hold back that they are offended by something that you say? That's part of having a healthy discussion, the ability to say what you honestly think about the idea that is being put forth. If the idea is offensive and someone can support their argument that the idea is offensive, why isn't that simply an honest aspect of the dialog about the idea? If it argument that it is offensive cannot be disputed isn't that simply pointing out the truth?
I won't comment on the hateful comment as that word is being tossed around to much lately as a defense against having to respond to someone saying that they've been offended. So without some context that seems hyperbolic.
It goes well beyond a healthy discussion. It is never okay to be hateful and hostile toward those with whom you disagree. Constructively expressing disagreement (or even offense) is one thing, being a hateful asshole is another matter entirely. Those are the people to whom I am referring, not those who simply disagree with me.
@Piratefish As I said before, "hateful" is being used to often to describe opposition to disgusting ideas. You give no examples to demonstrate that what you are talking about is any different than what I am talking about. I have been called hateful for attacking the premise of white supremacy. I have been called hateful for saying that Catholicism openly harbors pedophiles and that people who back the church regardless of their actions are hypocrites. Those aren't "hateful" opinions, they are perfectly rational for those of us don't happen to be a white supremacist or a die-hard Catholic.
So again, hateful is sometimes a word tossed around because people's feelings are hurt because they cannot justify an opinion and they object to the way someone responds to their objectionable opinion. Your ambiguity as to what is considered "hateful" leaves little to alleviate that opinion.
@Piratefish you want to debate religions and belief systems, go to groups religion, spirituality, philosophy. several months ago I left them never to return. first reason is i do no like to argue. Other reasons is it is a personal choice on you religion or belief system. It is you right and in no way indicates your IQ. OI come in the different rooms to share and discuss that subject. YOU are in Hello not HELL. Or maybe with that mixed up childhood one can have, you are.
@BettyColeman What?
@Piratefish you are in the wrong group for your post Mr. Intelligent Pitarefish. This group is Hello.
@BettyColeman It is GENERAL and hello. And it is exactly people like you this post is about.
People invariably prefer those who agree with them on issues that are important to them.Jews and gentiles only go together if neither are particularly religious and do not regard their origins as dtermining their relationship.Historically the woman has had to compromise but it can work the other way round.It would be easier for social harmony if religion was not a factor in any relationship but unfortunately indoctrination is secured early so it can be impossible to throw off without losing family who expect continuity.Religion causes so much unhappiness as it expects conformity and its often deleterious influence is unlikely to change anytime soon.
he is discussing intelligence and who does or does not have it, not religion. Only atheist are intelligent he says.
I'm of the mind that a lot of the problems we're in right now are because we've actually been coddling those mired in fairy tales, science denial and psuedoscience way way too much for far too many years.
We've let them get away with spewing their bullshit to "get along", when for the last 20 or so years we should have been sterilizing the entire fucking planet by stomping the bullshit hard with a giant shit kicking boot of science and reality.
Now because we've just let it spread so as to play nice, we're up to our noses in it. With sea levels rising, that'll soon be literally.
Ignorance has been around for way longer than 20 years. And my issue is more with people not tolerating others' views on what should be done about different problems. It's their way, or the highway. Real pleasant people.
Yes, you as I, assumed that "As atheists, agnostics, and skeptics, we are, as a group, more intelligent and educated than the population at large, and should be more open to questioning and challenging all of our beliefs and ideas." Unfortunately, there are many people here who are just mad at god because of something that happened in their life and didnt have an epiphany of any sort. Remember what happens when you assume...I found out the hard way here.
And so I am learning this, too. Good point about the atheists who are nonbelievers out of spite or bitterness. An angle I had not really considered much before joining this site less than three months ago.
To some extent I view this site as a place to take the mask off that I wear to get along out in real life. A place to talk about what's going on inside myself. Love this venue and outlet but it's not an accurate depiction of how I interact with others day to day. The frustration I talk about is what's going on on the inside. A place to share hidden ideas and experiences in being an out of the closet atheist. I'd hate for Agnostic.com to be a totally PC environment that we only showed smiles and no frowns, sadness or frustrations.
My issue is that on many topics, some already have become too PC and close minded.
@Piratefish I really appreciate the raw honesty on this site. Hope it never goes away.
@Piratefish "too pc" pffft. I absolutely reject the idea that it is ok to discriminate against people for circumstances of birth (race, sex, sexual orientation,place of birth, financial status) however I will judge the hell out of people who ignore evidence and facts to further their own biases and make others lives miserable over their circumstances of birth. Ignorance and bigotry is not a valid veiwpoint or lifestyle.
@OpposingOpposum Yes. This.
@OpposingOpposum ????
Believe you me there are groups to do that. This s a group for hello. Introduction. plenty of unhinged people in appropriate rooms to debate anything you believe.
@DoctoralZombie, @Piratefish my idea is that you need to go where you will get so much interaction on atheists, religions, belief systems that I stay away. Most all argue something they cannot prove scientifically. I stay away. I enjoy positive people.
it is to say hello group, not your life story.
Yet the very people who claim to be opposed to it have no problems with hating and blaming entire groups of people for the actions of a reprehensible few. It's very PC to say that one stands against prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination of any kind, but this idea does not seem to extend to all groups. To me, this feels like a double standard. We should always be careful when discussing any group, regardless of how popular or unpopular it may be to bash them.
@Piratefish it is absolutely not a double standard to denounce the groups who can be factually shown to be the originators of problem people and policies as bad, outdated or toxic. You know a man or a group by their actions, not their claims.
Not sure what you're referring to.
Be grateful!
I've not really had anything confrontational either from a theist or a know-it-all atheist. I either spout a lot of sense or I'm too thick to notice but I like to think I can have a conversation with someone I disagree with.
I suppose my sense of humour is sometimes not understood. There was a post about hate speech and was the answer more or less speech. I suggested that the answer was a punch in the face but got one comment that took that ridiculously seriously. Hey ho
Some people like to be offended. It mens they are the victim and the victims is always right. Our politicians are playing that particularly childish game as we speak,.
Some non-believer have emotions mixed into their perspective/labels and hate it when people call them on it.
Also, it depends on how we are challenged. I'm fine with answering question about my perspective; passive aggressive statements and insults on the other hand, might piss me off.
Have found that people get "hostile" or hateful to win an argument or debate because they find it often times works. Not necessarly to win their point, just to end the argument. Intimidate........and its easy to do when not face to face.
"we are, as a group, more intelligent and educated than the population at large" the arrogance in that comment reeks and when I appear to be intolerant it's quite likely because I am combating that arrogance. We don't build bridges in this country between conflicting ideologies because of that arrogance "I'm smarter than you". Oh piss off - people of faith are not less than - they're just on a different path. I arrived at my non-theism not because I'm Einstein but because of the paths that I have walked. I don't consider myself superior and I feel no need to constantly put myself out there in order to demonstrate my (only in my head) superiority.
I disagree with his assumption that agnostics/atheists/skeptics are more educated than the population at large (and I think he's referring to American population). But I understand why he thinks Ag/Ath/Sk's should be more familiar with coming to conclusions that emphasize evidence over traditions, feelings, and preserving the status quo. I don't think his question is about superiority and arrogance, I think it's about how we can avoid taking a reactionary stance during disagreements.
And in my opinion, we don't build bridges anymore because no one knows HOW to build a bridge to a group with a completely different value system.
have you watched the news in the last 3 years? We have people attacking people for just not being just like them. They can be walking down the street and get attacked. Some attackers are saying make America great again attack those not like us. Not the real words place the minorites name in there. Also some of are so tired of ignorant stupid morons
your post is one of extreme ignorance.
i am highly educated. an elec eng degree and computer systems degree.. I have many other classes I have taken. I have a curiosity that cannot be quenched. I love learning. There are extremists in all groups. If you can't say something nice, shut it.
diasagree, Betty. How is it extreme ignorance to ask a question? and why do you include an entire paragraph about how educated you are? Do you spot yourself in Piratefish's question?
For the record, I don't think asking a question, even if it's a flawed one, is mean. And I don't think saying "if you can't say something nice, shut it" is what a nice person says. I think it's what an intolerant person says.
It is NOT my responsibility to go out of my way that 90% of the US population is not threatened by my existence.
They can go to to beach and try to suck sand up any orifice they please.
The difference being, do you want to control reality? or do you want to understand it?
Piratefish this is NOT a hello post, but a hello group. Remove it.
It's GENERAL and hello. And I am not debating religion. Not sure you have read my post at all. You certainly do not seem to understand it. That is for certain.
@Piratefish you have offended more than me. read the posts you received i did. general is not religion or belief system. that is personal. if some want to discuss it we have groups to do so. General and Hello is rather impersonal, not like asking let me see you naked. It will not matter to you but to me, you are a bombastic insufferable idiot. while you digest this, I will be busy.
My first intervention here had a reply from someone who took his /her beliefs as facts and could have easily turned out sour but I guess it's normal when human beings are involved.
I was going to post something similar to this but you have stated it better than I could.