I believe you're spot on, that what your saying is in general true to form. Perhaps what I'm trying to grasp , simply doesn't exist..I do thank you for your response

Thank you for your reply....something about your post makes me think that you never were a real believer, and for whatever reason, just "tried " to be one. ....thats a pretty good motivator right there for seeking rational thinking.true.... the atheist are not perfect, and I have never met a perfectly rational person....a smart person once told me that to strive for perfection, is a virtue, to expect perfection, in youself or anyone else, is irrational.

jews already sleep late on sundays (and do not focus on an afterlife)! the opposite of atheism isn't christianity lol. it's belief in a deity or deities. that belief manifests itself in various ways, some of which do not believe in or at least focus on an afterlife, or have anything to do with sundays. the campaign as you envision it is funny but presumes christianity as its target.

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@genessa Yes, I was making an attempt at humor... I'll have to write something for Judaism, Islam, and others...

@sfvpool well it WAS funny so you succeeded there! it's just that i often see generalizations about religion that don't apply to all, and most often i find that this reflects an assumption about judaism. i'm neither defending religion nor advocating judaism, just trying to be accurate. i happen to know a bit about it, being jewish (culturally, but not religiously). pardon me for going off on this tangent (please don't get mad if i ramble off-topic for your post, or even for the original post) but while i am thinking about it, some of the most frequent assumptions are: 1. that jews either believe in or live for an afterlife, as christians do. there is a word for the afterlife, "sheol," but it's not like heaven or hell, and even rabbis disagree about whether it literally exists (i personally heard a sermon in which the rabbi was speculating, and he sounded doubtful, but came to no conclusion). (at any rate, even for those jews who believe in an afterlife, the focus is on THIS life.) in jewish folkslore there is all that, but folklore is different. jewish folklore has demons, and the devil and demons are simply not part of judaism. oh, that should've been #2! 2. no devil. no demons. 3. no "everyone else goes to hell" (or is cursed or damned or whatever). judaism doesn't say everyone has to be, or even should be, jewish. in fact, there ate no 10 commandments in judaism. there are 631 jews must follow (most jews don't, and i don't mean they're bad jews, i just mean they don't take them literally) and seven that nonjews must follow. there is the concept of "the righteous gentile" too. so there is also no proselytizing, and while conversions are possible, they're discouraged and they involve a lot of studying, usually for about a year. 4. judaism is just christianity without jesus. judaism's main tenet is all about how jesus isn't god. uh... no. no. just no. 5. jews use the old testament. nope. there is no old testament. there is only one testament! lol anyway the thing that christians call the old testament has been translated and retranslated and mistranslated and edited and all that so much that the hebrew bible and the old testament are not the same book. 6. oh come on, five is enough (there is more but i'm really sleepy and need a nap!) i've already gotten way far off the track from your joke, which, as i said, actually was funny!

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Thank you for your reply. A good list to comtemplate.and of course getting to the young is important, as believers well know.

@genessa thanks for the culture 101 introduction.....would never guess you were a writer lol

@genessa I don't mind that you went on a tangent. I am aware of what you wrote about Judaism and its beliefs. There is much I admire about modern Jewish culture, especially the emphasis placed upon education and hard work. Not much into the guilt part, but there is no monopoly there. As far as modern religions go, Judaism seems to be one of the more rational. All of this adds to the contempt I have for anti-semites.

Some excellent points. Being an Atheist can also keep you alive. I'm a Viet Nam vet. Many times I heard other men saying they weren't afraid to die because if they were killed they would be with Jesus. I was always very careful because I knew I wasn't going to be with Jesus.

@sfvpool lol the guilt part is slightly mythological and applies more to catholicism, so you're right about no monopoly ). @nicknotes oy vay, the delusional soldiers. glad you had a sense of self-preservation!

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IMO if soldiers knew the truth we wouldn't have wars. Certainly many fewer wars....@genessa

@nicknotes maybe, maybe not. it would be nice if it worked that way. it might just lead to fracking though.

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Thank you for your reply. Will be a a while thinking that through. I do appreciate the train of thought.

Will have to remember ?????

If you're with a woman you can stay in bed and have fun. @HankSherman

@nicknotes you're on a roll

Thank you,....and can you recall what started you thinking toward that trend after fourty years?

@HankSherman Yes, I can. It's way christains treat the gay community. I started to notice in my 30s and how people are suppose to believe in the bs. With no questions asked. I tried other sects of christainity to find answers and happiness.. Which I now realize was a waste of time.

@freedom41 thank you for your reply. Many of the things I see now as un-fair about religion, I realize always went against my grain, and would make me un-comfortable when dicussing with religious people. Then when I finally got the courage to speak out, and nothing reached out to slap me down, I realized "theres nothing out there"....made me feel I had been a coward all my life.

Thank you,....looking for the motivational phrase, or question that might lead to that "snap".

@HankSherman Hmmm, well I can think of a couple of cases. One is where the individual never truly bought into it and they find and excuse to do so after escaping from either the psychological or physical barriers that kept them penned in. Two is where there is a sense of profound disiilusionment with someone they trusted, or something that is clearly demonstrated to be false or shallow. Third is when they get tired of being told to behave a certain way that irritates the hell out of them and just toss it all out the window to be themselves finally. For your part, you can be a good example, never condescend or scold, you never know what can happen. Good luck.

@zeuser thank you for your reply. ...and your suggestions, food for thought.

Thank you.....any thoughts on motivating that search?

Thank you, looking for best ways to try to lead a person to taking that first step toward thinking of giving thoughts to those "options". .....instead of closing down their minds, opening to something desirable,...

I wish I could like @Fernapple statement a million times.

This. 100% this. When I was still a believer I wanted desperately to remain so. I fought against my apostasy incredibly hard. No one wants their life upended. No one wants easy, comfortable certainty ripped away; I struggled to continue to believe, but in the end, there was no fighting who I am.

@pasha-one-nine Thanks for the appreciation.

I agree with your observation.....I am really asking for thoughts on how best to motivate the change of that mind set.....other than saying "you're wrong", and causing an automatic shut down in listening to anything else said. Or building a mountain of evidence to prove faulty thinking, that just brings about the "is not, is not, is not" mentality. A question, or statement, that would motivate a believer to stop and think "huh, never thought about it that way".

@HankSherman The best way, I think, is just to set a good example of being a good human, as there get to be more and more of us that alone is bound to get those on the edge asking questions, of their own.

@Fernapple good advice, thanks for your replies and thoughts