I just finishing adding more sandbags around my front entrance. The GS is on watch with a flack jacket on.

@MissKathleen RIGHT! Otherwise, it's meaningless.

funny, my experience is seeing people put down for having, or wanting, a university degree, as if having one or wanting one automatically puts down those who don't want or have one.

g

I wouldn't say that 73% might not have bothered to get their degree. While they might not work in the area of their degree, they are much more likely to have better jobs because of their degree. A bachelor's degree shows that you have a foundation of general education as well as your specific field of focus. It demonstrates a degree of commitment and other desirable qualities as well. I don't necessarily agree with all the emphasis you see on having a degree in our society but I don't believe any degree is a waste of time. I think we would actually benefit by degrees being less tied to specific careers.

Maybe in Australia you folks can afford the taxes.

@bigpawbullets Look at other countries who pay way more tax than they do in the US. The problem is that the rich folks there do not pay any taxes. You know there is a reason why Donald doesn't want to show his tax returns.

Very "European" outlook.
I went to college for a classic Liberal Arts education. But back then, a BA guaranteed you a good entry level job in almost any corporation.

@bigpawbullets Learning for just learning appears to be only for the wealthy now...and judging from the intellectual acumen of some of the wealthy, it, too has been wasted for job purposes only...the whole tuition/student loan thing is different that when we went to school...tuition didn't cost the price of a nice car...debt was hardly anything more than small loans and scholarships for the brightest were readily available...I also do not support free college for all...I don't want my tax dollars going to some one without the interest or talent when they might enjoy another way to earn a living...

I think we should have a way to guide people like they have in other countries...the brightest and motivated should have the opportunities to study whatever they want...there has to be a way to make this affordable to those who cannot afford it...

Practicality says college should get people a job, but we know that is not true anymore...we shouldn't hold college degrees in such high esteem either...a toilet that needs fixing is just as important...

I just don't want to see education as a divider...I also want to see people pursue art, music, philosophy, language, and literature ... not exactly teaming with jobs but still necessary

I didn’t benefit to much having a BA in history in my chosen field, cattle ranching but at least I know not to vote for the idiotic democrats! ?????

@Trajan61 Yes...it is obvious that you did not benefit from a college degree so you prove my point...college is not for everyone...

@thinktwice Evedently you didn’t learn anything in college.

@thinktwice, @kenriley Well you voted for the idiotic democrats. ???

@Trajan61 I deleted my snarky and nasty comment to you because, you know what...I am not that person and I am going to take the high road and not match your barbs and insults...instead, I have chosen to ignore your comments and move on. I am not here to analyze why you or others think the way you do and have come to the conclusion that it is not worth my time and energy...so have a good day.

@thinktwice I didn’t realize I said anything any more snarky than you did?

@Trajan61 I deleted my second comment ... engaging in tit for tat is not productive...carry on...

@thinktwice I’ll delete mine as well but I still see yours.

It says off the bat "make sure there is demand in your field".. Nothing about good guys or colleges having to be free or qualifying to get in. Why all the false accusations of presuppositions?

@Captain_Feelgood right. demand in your field. as if college is just for getting a job. yes, the poster's comment is about free college for all, so what do you MEAN there is nothing about free college? as for the rest of it, NOT false accusations. the rest is implied. of course it doesn't say anything about good guys, but the meme obviously admires bob and laughs at jim. it doesn't have to SAY the word "good guy." geez.

g

@genessa Does the phrase "straw man argument" mean anything to you? When did he ever say that college is just for getting a job? (hence your straw man) and the meme says nothing about free college for all.. What you THINK is implied has no baring on the matter what so ever. And he never said one time that "free college for everyone" meant that everyone had to go to college.. That is just another example of you making a straw man argument. It is becoming obvious to me that you really do not understand anything being said here, or you do not care what is being said, and only wish to be a Troll.

@Captain_Feelgood again, the implication is there. there is no straw man in my argument. it's bearing, not baring, and what i think has a huge bearing on it because unlike people who unjustly call others trolls, i actually understand what i read. there are no examples, elsewhere or here, of my making straw man arguments. what is obvious to you is that you are yourself a troll and i have no use for trolls. i bid you goodbye but you probably won't see my goodbye because i block trolls.

g

@Gooniesnvrdie Exactly

But it started an interesting dialogue.

@bigpawbullets Yeah, I think that we are having the WRONG "interesting dialogue." This meme is really designed to communicate the value of the blue-collar work. They provide important and critical function to our society, as much as any white-collar jobs. We should feel proud to be engaged in such work and those who work in such a field should be given far more respect than they currently receive.

However, "education only as a means of employment" also misses the point. Those who engage in blue-collar work, and those who wants to go into such field should also be given the benefit of "higher" education. They are not mutually inconsistent.

And with the society as it is now, this forces those who want to do something other than blue-collar/trade-related work, who have no financial resources to go to colleage, practically into only one option. They should be given the chance to do something other than that if that's where their talent and joy lie. This meme sounds a little too close to "if you know your station, you will be far more happier" type of bullshit.

@KenChang
Ken! I've not seen any posts from you in awhile, and I'm glad to see your input here.

@bigpawbullets Thanks. Somedays I do the rant therapy. Other days I do mindfulness. I am trying to do more of the latter. The battle continues.

Ken!
I value your input. You're a well educated "man of the world", simply by your professional experiences. You speak of "political will". I get that. But I've never seen actual spreadsheets with line items on what it costs to run a "real" university. By "real", I mean one that provides a good education. An education that enriches the student, and provides a cost justified value to society. Now, both of those are pretty subjective, I admit. So I've no idea of the real impact that "free college for all" would be on my taxes. Have you ever seen a valid breakdown of this?

@bigpawbullets I haven't either. But that doesn't mean it is that hard to estimate. But more interestingly, no one asks that question about our military spending. We outspend the country with the second most military spending, China, by about $400 billion. That is, from the $600 billion discretionary spending on military. Has anyone seen the actual spreadsheet with line items on what it is spent on, and that which provides a cost justified value to society? Of course, it is subjective. But I have no idea of the "real impact" that this discretionary military spending had on my taxes.

Sanders estimated the free college might cost $75 billion a year. We ask "what's in it for me" question with respect to his suggestion. Why then are we not asking "what's in it for me" question when it comes to $600 billion discretionary military spending, when we outspend China by $400 billion.....that is, almost three times as much as China.

@KenChang
Good points buddy.
My first thought is that the 600 billion military budget gets pumped back into our economy through the hated "military/industrial complex".
I realize it's vilified. But it does feed a lot of our industry, R&D, and support organizations. I've worked both in uniform and as a military contractor. The budgets, huge as they are, go for goods and services way beyond paychecks for the troops.

@KenChang
But!
Could we re-direct, say, 1/6 of that military budget to fund a "free college" for those qualified? I would think.... maybe. There would be screaming from the military. But, say you did it over a decade. I'd be fascinated to see the results.

@bigpawbullets Yes. The MI complex isn't the devil. It's simply a funnel through which we redistribute wealth, but disproportionately toward the already rich. It is a part, a large part, of the "trickle down" economy.

Agree.

I know so many counter-examples to this in real life. I've met lots of people who are extremely intelligent (far more than the average lawyers and judges), who were NEVER given a chance to show how "smart" they are. If you live in poverty, you miss school (even high school), lack opportunity to get better grades, or receive the general education, even in this country. How would you test for "smartness" when there is no even playing ground earlier on? We need to do far better, and guess what, we HAVE the means to do far better. We just don't have the political will. And when I say political will, I mean the desire to do the right thing and not engage in willful ignorance of the society's problems.

@KenChang
I agree with your points here.

1. There is no even playing ground. That would seem to be the first, and probably the hardest variable to eliminate. I would offer that it is a multi-generational problem and would require a multi-generational fix. So, a vision of a multi-generational future would need to be "bought into". I know of some examples of this. But they appear to me to not be common.

@bigpawbullets Yes. It is hard, I agree. It is hard not because we don't have the resources. But because we do not have the "political will." We do not have the "political will" because we are more brainwashed than educated. These memes, I am afraid, mislead more than educate.

This isn't Democrat or Republican issue. The graphics are 2016 Obama era data. We wonder why we spend so much on military discretionary funding, while decimating social safety nets. It is as if our ruling class is paranoid about their power and control.

We can't wait for the "political will" from our politicians. We have to show ours. We are not going to do that if we are too busy trying to just survive and keep afloat. It is wonderful how poverty works so well for the super-rich.

@KenChang There’s pell grants and scholarships for the poor so what in the hell are you babbling about??

@Trajan61 As a person who has received both Pell Grant AND scholarships, I can tell you that those things are not nearly enough to go to college nowadays. Or did you not know this reality before you started babbling?

@Trajan61 Tell me that you understand the extraordinary sacrifice a student (and other family members) from a poor family has to make in order to get to the higher education. Tell me that you know a kid who is raised in poverty has extreme difficulty in making the good grades in high school and SAT in order to be admitted into colleges in the first place, before having to fill out FAFSA. Please tell me that you had experience in filling out (or attempting to fill out) FAFSA on yearly basis in order to make sure that you have the funding

@KenChang "Tell me that you know a kid who is raised in poverty". I'm thinking Barack Obama, Corry Booker, and others.

@rogueflyer Obama was definitely not raised in poverty.

@Trajan61 Yes you have a point. He was raised by a single parent mostly and partially by grandparents. His mother had a government job in Indonesia and he went to Punahou School in Honolulu 5th through 12th. I had assumed he got a scholarship for Punahou but I couldn't find any evidence of that or Occidental, Columbia or Harvard Universities. Education in private schools is expensive and because he was raised in a middle-class setting there must have been help somewhere. You're right though middle class even lower middle class is not poverty. Cheers.