Perhaps atheists need religion to exist to justify their position. That’s what Jacques Derrida and the Deconstructionists would say. (No it’s not a band but a great name I would use if I were to hit the road again!). What d’yer reckon?
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Without any religion, everybody would be an atheist by default, no? Did I miss something, or is there more context to this than I can detect?
zeuser
Level 9
May 5, 2019
1
I’m just playing a thought game here. Deconstruction philosophy just suggests that, very crudely, a position only has existence because of its opposite. For example the police only exist because criminals exist. Without criminals the police are unnecessary therefore their existence is only justified by their polarity.
@Geoffrey51 Well I guess that if everyone agrees there wasn't a god, there wouldn't be a term for it. Or a need. So I see what you mean.
No religion is not the same as belief in something not provable. Religion is the structure built around belief as a way to harness it as a force for change in the world. And within it their is a massive variety of expression. Some use it as a simple social construct for help, community and a sense of belonging. Not caring the truth or falsehood of "God" these people like many humans wish for a greater sum then themselves to define their lives or find value in a group playing at believing as that is the price for membership as it were.. Others, "true" believers literally believe in texts and tend to be the ones who need others to believe and need to define themselves against the nonbelievers. Other true believers care only for their own personal connection with their God and care little for others opinions. These archetypes exist in other social constructs such as ethnic cultures, national identity, even within communities such as LGBTQ, Gaming communities etc. All share a often poisonous need to reflect themselves off the "other". What you are really saying I think is without belief in the unproven everyone would be Atheist. Perhaps though to me that would be a boring, grey sad world.
WHile checking into a hospital for surgery awhile back , the woman fill in in my check in sheet , asked what religion . I told her I was an atheist , Next question - smoke ? No Drink ? No . Drugs ? No . Then she looked at me and asked , " What do you use as a crutch ? With a brief hesitation , I answered , "I stand on my own two feet .
Cast1es
Level 9
May 5, 2019
8
I do find it interesting how much energy Atheists spend on shit talking a imaginary God. Rather then say simply ignore the imaginary and focus on the result. While refuting the existence of God is rational the way people refute is seems often very irrational. Especially the idea that all religious people are the same. Look at it in relation to a child's imaginary friend which is often a result of a real stress or influence/event in the child's life. While not real the "friend" serves a real purpose and has real measurable results quite often beneficial. Sometimes not. But the way to resolve the issues is not through attacking the idea of the imaginary rather it is finding why the need for the imaginary exists and finding a more reason based rational way to deal with the core issue. Instead many Atheist, many adults, they find satisfaction in being "right" rather then being beneficial or effective in making things better.
Quarm
Level 6
May 5, 2019
6
With you all the way on that one. Well reasoned response I thought. Thanks
it would be nice to be able to do that. we wouldn't give any of it a thought in the universe were in not for evangelicals trying to keep women from having autonomy over their own bodies and keep gay and trans people from having equal rights and christian politicians trying to insert christianity into the laws that should be secular and how many states, is it seven or 14, that forbid atheists to run for elected office, and all the fools trying to convert us. why, i wouldn't give the imaginary god a half a thought were it not for all those folks cramming it down my throat.
g
I think Jacques Derrida and the Deconstructionists (agreed, great band name), are completely full of shit.
Atheists do not "need" anything to justify anything. If man hadn't invented gods and religion, atheists wouldn't have anything to NOT believe in. If there were no theists, atheism wouldn't need to exist.
We're all born not believing in gods and religion. That garbage has to be taught.
However, I will concede that anti-theists (like myself) would have nothing to be against if religion didn't exist.
Jacques can have that one.
KKGator
Level 9
May 5, 2019
5
Yep
Gtfo with that nonsense. There is no need for religion, period. It is a concept that has and continues to cause far more problems than it ever solved. It is a nonsensical, cowardly and ridiculous way to address the problems of life.
OpposingOpposum
Level 9
May 5, 2019
5
Who the fuck is Jack Derrida and why should I care what this idiot says? Since when do facts, science, evidence and reason need justification?
Mofo1953
Level 9
May 5, 2019
4
Look him up. One of the most influential of the C20th post-modernist philosophers. Then you won’t be remarking from a point of ignorance.
@Geoffrey51 I don't want to, need to or care to, if he is influential as you claim, then why is he so stupid to make such a moronic statement. You failed to read the second sentence of my comment. Ergo, my reply is still the same, we are all ignorant of many things and so are you. I stay informed, and thus not ignorant only of things that I consider whorthwhile being informed about, somehow post-modernist philosophy doesn't tickle my fancy, so I pass.
@Geoffrey51 Sorry, philosophers have never impressed me and I can't think of one who has changed society with their ideas. He might be a fucking genius, but even geniuses say stupid things, and this is one of them. Also, i don't pay much attention to the musings of dromedaries. 
@Mofo1953 I didn’t say that his position was my position, just opening up discussion. Fascinating the way a rogue post ignited such interest
@Geoffrey51 neither did I in any of my comments. What did you expect when you post something idiotic and then ask "what d'yer reckon"?
@Sticks48 that’s unfair on dromedaries 
@Geoffrey51 You are right. I really don't know that many dromedaries to make such a statement. My apologies.
Perhaps people who do not believe in the purple and white polka-dotted, winged elephant flying around the planet Saturn with a unicorn stuffed up its ass need those who do believe in it to exist to justify their position. Impeccable logic.
THHA
Level 7
May 5, 2019
3
getting a glimpse of the true motivation for
thier activities- SELF PURPETUATION-
THANKS
You don't need a justification that you don't believe something. You only need to know what is in your own head. If the idea has never occurred to anyone, then yes, it is dependent upon someone suggesting the idea first before you can consider if you believe it or not. But that's not a "justification". At best, it's a prompt.
greyeyed123
Level 7
May 5, 2019
3
Does a Non-Stamp Collector need stamps to justify their position?
I'm a non-glorpist. I have no belief in glorp. Glorp doesn't NEED to exist to justify my stance.
Keita
Level 5
May 6, 2019
3
That is not logical. I can claim not to believe in something that doesn't exist, and the idea that is somehow now exists as the counter narrative, is as stupid as the idea that "if we can think of it, then in one of the infinite potential realities, it is true", arguement for proof of God.
Many people think of nonsense and its existence is not required for conceptualization. Even the claim it exists, isn't necessary. you can be opposed to something NO ONE has ever thought of.
Simply put, thought doesn't equal reality. Otherwise schizophrenia would be a superpower.
I reckon it's an absurd notion.
The existence of religious people have no bearing whatsoever on any position I take on anything.
This sounds like the brain-child of the kind of theists who can't grasp the fact that atheism is not a religion.
MLinoge
Level 7
May 5, 2019
3
They do actively RECRUIT ,I'm afraid to say.
True, Atheists exist because religions do. We would much rather just exist without having to identify as such, but because they exist we have to exist.
KevinMR
Level 7
May 5, 2019
2
Truth. That’s what I was going to say. Right on.
Maybe Jacques should start a band, because that statement is really stupid.
Sticks48
Level 9
May 5, 2019
2
He didn’t actually make that specific statement. It would be part of the deconstructionist ideas for example, the reason we need police is to prevent and detect crime, but if crime didn’t exist, then police would be unnecessary, so by preventing and detecting crime they are hastening their non-necessity so the more successful they are the shorter their lifetime which is sort of anti-Darwinist. Just though I’d through this one out to see where it went. Quite a few takers!
@Geoffrey51 ...I submit police also are traffic
and hazard mitigation(protect & serve).Again
some communities have little or no need,for
enforcement or recruiting *
So if atheists don’t believe in whatever they don’t believe in, why do they need to engage in the argument because they are arguing about something that doesn’t exist. Ergo, no argument. At the end of the day, if we are honest, no one really gives a shit what anyone else thinks unless it impacts upon their lives. Just sayin’ and opening up discussion.
Geoffrey51
Level 8
May 5, 2019
3
Atheists need to argue against religion because it influences every aspect of public policy and every day life.
That's why.
I don't want that garbage having ANY influence on government or any other aspect of public policy.
If people want to choose their delusions, that's fine, have at it.
However, not everyone engages in those delusions, and none of them should be subjected to them.
ESPECIALLY CHILDREN.
NO- BELIEF IS 1 INDIVIDUALS REFERENCE TO REALITY...
a hard Cold FACT-we can all agree & build on,or move on from.
@BBJong until the fact is proven to be incorrect when it becomes a belief, I.e. Steady State vs Big Bang, Flat Earth v Globe, Geocentric vs Heliocentric. Just sayin’!
why do i have to justify my "position" to anyone? i don't have a position. i just happen to be aware that there are no gods. so if no one else believed in any gods, there still wouldn't be any. what i know has nothing to do with what someone else believes.
g
genessa
Level 8
May 5, 2019
2
Lol I wish I didn't have to be an atheist, if that's your idea. There wouldn't be any debate on whats real or rational. Everyone would just acknowledge reality for what it is, and have a lot less reason to fight or disagree.
Eric_in_bham
Level 5
May 5, 2019
2
I think the Western world had to go through religion to get to atheism. Derrida wanted to tear down the old to bring in the new. I don't think he was in a position to fully understand what he was promoting. We can see it better now with cultural Marxism attempting to do all the things he wrote about.
I don't know if atheism needs to justify its stance by the evil acts of religion over the centuries. Perhaps the good aspects of religion over the centuries would work against that justification.
brentan
Level 8
May 5, 2019
2
Good point. There are also secular atrocities. It is not just the domain of religious ethos. I find also that in many, many cases ‘religion’ when speaking in a Western context means evangelical or Catholic Christianity. We also need to remember that without the austerity of Calvinism there would be no Industrial Revolution which inspired Marx’s observations. This is also why Northern Europe was the powerhouse for that change.
Um... what exactly would that position be? I don’t really have one to justify.
indirect76
Level 7
May 5, 2019
2
To say that someone has to believe in something that doesn’t exist to justify my not believing in it, is just...wrong
CurtisHall
Level 5
May 7, 2019
1
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