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I agree that making fun or otherwise criticizing someone's religion is in bad taste and can be hurtful.Muslim's seem to be especially susceptible. However, do you think this should be covered under free speech?
Vote YES if you think religious criticism should be allowed under free speech.
Vote NO if you think criticizing someone's faith should not be allowed under free speech.

  • 119 votes
  • 2 votes
  • 1 vote
Grecio 7 July 21
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49 comments

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10

I am going to continue to criticize ALL religion, since I think it's ALL evil.
It's not anywhere near being "hate speech", because religion is a CHOICE.
It's not like race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or anything else that is
NOT a choice.

As far as what is "moral" goes, I don't care one whit what someone else
tries to tell me what is moral and what isn't.
I think all religion is immoral. I get to say so.
Whenever anyone tries to say what is "moral" and what isn't, I tend to dismiss them.
In my experience, the people who scream the loudest about morals are usually the
most immoral.

Atheists and agnostics are already criticized, so that particular part of the question is moot.

Everyone is subject to criticism.

7

It is okay to criticize someone's beliefs.

It is not okay to mistreat people because of their beliefs.

J75243 Level 6 July 21, 2019
5

The issue with Islam is not the believers as individuals, but that it has not had a reformation since its beginning.

Christianity has faced severe scrutiny over the past 500 years. "Witches" are no longer burned at the stake, nor are people stoned to death for adultery, for example.

Within Islam, however, these barbaric practices still take place and are widely accepted as just punishments in many Muslim majority countries.

Islam is susceptible to criticism but also unfairly protected due to the majority of its believers having brown skin.

Islam is a religion, not a race. The criticism of the religion is therefore not racist.

A former colleague of mine (Irish) converted to Islam and she is now (not formerly) against any rights granted to gay people. She believes they will burn in hell.

I don't care what colour you are; that belief is worthy of criticism.

Athena Level 8 July 21, 2019
4

Under the atheists banner, all religions are game.

4

One of my neighbours is a devout Muslim … for some reason he believes that I am a Jew … but a fake one … an Ashkenazi … As I am German I replied: "Oh, you mean I am an AshkeNazi? We still meet regularly for coffee and insults: I call him Taliban … But unfortunately we can never really discuss any real topics in a civilised and constructive manner. For him the AshkeNazi, he has now embraced the expression, are the source of all evil.
Unfortunately he is also an absolute misogynist.
So the only thing we occasionally agree upon is coffee. But sometimes he even fucks that up by adding cloves.

I love coffee with cloves and star anise and fresh black pepper. Ah well.

@MarkiusMahamius OK … I add milk.

@PontifexMarximus I'm ashkenhoweveryouspellit. The coffee might be a middle eastern heritage thing. Milk is good too

Because the crop is in, I have been throwing mint leaves in my eight ounce steaming hot mug of brain jarring espresso in the morning.

Petunia wants her Maxwell House black and unadorned until she wanders into McDonald's for her fancy Dan coffee mixes.

@WonderWartHog99 What type or brand of espresso machine do you use or suggest??

@Grecio I'm not happy with Mr. Coffee but that's the brand I have. Any recommendations when the seals on my current machine give out?

4

There is a big difference between criticizing and being down right racist.

I agree, but religion isn't about race, in my opinion. There is only one race. The human race. However, some religions and cults are not good for the world. Muslims that don't believe in Sharia law and don't believe in terrorism or killing apostates are fine with me. Most Muslims are just ordinary people trying to earn a living in peace for their family. Some are radical and they get all the publicity.

@Grecio In high school I started writing that in on paperwork that asked about race. If it was multiple choice I’d write in “human”

@JacobMeyers Hahahaahaha tooooo funny!!!

@Grecio How about the Jewish religion?

@Grecio, @BeerAndWine Funny you should say that. I have noticed that as soon as right wing people get criticised they bleat on about saying or doing something racist they bleat on about free speech but are quite happy to stop others saying their piece.

4

It is covered under free speech. The only thing that is not protected under the First Amendment is speech that is threatening violence or inciting violence. That is why hate speech is unfortunately protected. They're espousing hate but not directly esposing violence.

t1nick Level 8 July 21, 2019

Good call. The difference, I guess, is inspiring hate or inspiring violence.

The only thing that is not protected under the First Amendment is speech that is threatening violence or inciting violence.

Can you yell "theater" in a crowded fire?
😉

@WonderWartHog99
Nice twist of phrase. Something I would do.

It is considered threatening violence because it presumed human nature will cause a stampede and panic endangering lives and bodily harm. It is illegal as the only purpose for doing do when a fire indeed die6s not exidt is to do bodily harm.

@t1nick >It is considered threatening violence because it presumed human nature will cause a stampede and panic

If you cried "theater" in a crowded fire, they'd think it was intermission and stay for the second feature.

My former biz partner (may the parole board be turning him down now), said never threaten anyone -- that's a second criminal offense. Don't let them hear it coming.

3

Absolutely nothing is exempt from criticism. To refuse to question and argue is the crux of beliefs of the religious horde.

3

Why do religious beliefs get special treatment? If someone believes in faeries or unicorns, should we coddle their beliefs too?

JimG Level 8 July 22, 2019

If that floats their magic ship, why should I care? It's all the same to me. Belief systems, politics, choice of clothing, etc. What everyone else does is none of my business. What I am doing, is.

3

If it is ever NOT OK to criticize religion the end effect would be to protect such religious belief. I do not care if remarks on your beliefs have made you uncomfortable. Sometimes we need this in order to bring about change. No belief should be coddled or encouraged.

3

This would be a totally legit discussion if you didn't derail it by just turning it into a backhanded complaint about how you see Islam

3

incitement to violence is an exception to, and overrides, free speech.

being nasty is not against the law but being nasty is still nasty.

slander is against the law so be careful what you say. if you say jews eat christian babies you may get into trouble.

there is a difference between criticizing the tenets of a religion, criticizing its practitioners and spreading hatred of its practitioners. "judaism forbids the consumption of shellfish" is truthful, at least for those who keep kosher. "judaism forbids the consumption of shellfish and that's stupid" is a combination of fact and opinion and there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, although there are different ways to express one. "judaism forbids the consumption of shellfish so jews are stupid" contains a rather bigoted opinion and is not logical (many people who are not stupid do things that either are stupid or are perceived to be stupid). "jews should all be shot dead" could be construed as incitement to violence. "this particular jews did (whatever)" could be slander if it's not factual, or even if it is factual but is interpreted wrongly (for example, "this jew wears a hat and therefore is hiding horns" is a slanderous conclusion if expressed publicly, and if i haven't got it PRECISELY right, well, i'm not a lawyer, but you get my drift, right? so the options in the poll are too simplistic.

g

3

All criticism should be protected speech.

3

To be honest, I'll never agree to attacking a person. That is only harmful and will only begat more hate and distrust.
But I do agree with the likes of Dawkins, Fry,Hitch, etc. that religion should be looked at with disdain, contempt, and ridicule.
JMHO.

Do you agree with Sam Harris that there is nothing good in Islam?

@Grecio Yes. I should have included him in my list of names.

3

I think this one's going to be a landslide.

Gareth Level 7 July 21, 2019
2

Of course it's free speech. It's a matter of dignity to not go around stirring discontent.

2

93, 2, 1 - I think that's a pretty clear verdict!

2

There are few absolutes but one of the few is free speech, which is either absolutely there or absolutely not there, no half way houses. But not all speech is equal and not all speech is without bias.

2

My, my, my, yet another thinly-veiled attack on a religion other than xian....I am shocked!

2

That's our constitution

bobwjr Level 10 July 22, 2019

I guess we could adjust the constitution to read "Freedom of speech unless it hurts somebody's feelings" Hahahahah

2

I used to attend a sceptics "meet up" group in Edinburgh and their mantra was "attack the idea, not the person". I go along with that.

2

It can't be illegal by law to speak for or against any religion.

In the workplace though?

Mocking someone's Hijab or Payots or skirt length should rightly own you the cardboard box march of shame.

Be a decent human.

I don't care what clothes anyone wears, but Islam teaches that separation of church and state is against god's will. That is wrong. I understand that most Muslims are just people trying to make a living for his/her family, but all that Sharia crap is leftover from the 7th century. Islam needs a reinvention but all religion is a waste of time and effort.

@Grecio Well. We don't need to be concerned about Sharia law in this country.

I will not stand for someone being treated unkindly because Bigots, though.

I don't mock clothes, the color of skin, or where anyone came from, but I don't like people that support Sharia or don't believe in the separation of church and state. I'm sure there are some good things about Islam and other faiths, although all religions are myths.

@BufftonBeotch I guess you write that because the percentage of Muslims in this country is relatively small right now. However, there are Muslims in Congress now. Dearborn Michigan has been taken over by Muslims. Muslim immigrants have almost ruined Europe. Examine what has been happening in Europe. European countries are wising up now and beginning to deport.

@Grecio Fear! Fear! Panic!

There are OTHERS!

FEAR FEAR!

Whatever.

@BufftonBeotch Please don't get the hair up on your back ( a southern colloquialism). I guess we all want bad ideas to go away.

@Grecio Christian Dominion theology is far more likely to take root and completely change your way of life.

I am completely unconcerned with the Muslims I interact with wanting to impose their will on me than Xtians.

2

Islam is an imperialistic political ideology masquerading as, and usurping the advantages of a religion. Very little of the criticism of Islam as related to its pre-Medina religious precepts.
The great majority of criticism targets political Islam:

imperialism,
violence,
oppression,
cruelty,
misogyny,
practice of FGM,
Hijrah invasions,
intolerance of non-believers,
persecution of Kafirs,
hatred and persecution of Jews,
hatred of democracy,
promotion of theocracy,
deliberate deception: Taqiyya, Tawriya, Kitman, Muruna,
executions by beheading, hanging, stoning, etc.
amputations and flogging as punishment,
etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

The "sacred" texts of Islam tolerate, promote and mandate all the above and many more atrocities.

Well put with honesty. The goal of many Muslims in America is to convert America to Islam. Anybody that feels that way needs to leave. Muslims don't assimilate here very much. They form a group and run the rest of the people out (like Dearborn , Michigan) That way, they have enough votes to get a Muslim elected.

2

There is a line of subtlety, I think. While it is okay to criticize a religion - or all religions, that is substantively different than criticizing a person based on their religion.

2

Though there is no need to be insulting to a person it is perfectly fine to criticize ideas and beliefs. Why should religion be protected from criticism? Nothing should be above criticism.

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