If there is a god than he has watched every act of child molestation that has ever happened and not stopped it. Try to explain how that could ever be explained as a "mysterious way" in which he works.
Cuz it can't be explained. Because no gods have ever existed in reality.
If any ever have, and they watched while children, or anyone, were abused, they'd be shit gods, not worthy of worship.
What&where are these alleged gawd things??
@GreenAtheist Nowhere. Nowhere at all.
@KKGator truth and what was best defined by Einstein: " In any physical equation, you must assign the value of zero to gawds"
I think the problem can be summed up not in eliminating a god but in a better understanding of how the supposed god works. [britannica.com]
" After Newton published his discoveries, some regarded God as a watch-maker; a distant Creator and First Mover who wound up the universe, set it in motion, and then stepped away; it was pointless to pray to such a God who surely wasn't listening."
When you think about this it should be how it works. For a god to constantly be meddling in human affairs means god is an enabler. This reduces or removes the idea of freedom of choice. Funny, but a new series on NetFlix "The Good Place" with Ted Dansen [nbc.com] has a different take on the afterlife and the 2nd season actually deals with meddling in peoples lives to send them to the 'good place.'
@altschmerz Its on netflix
Nothing mysterious about it.. We are animals... Why do we think a god, which we created, would interfere with our lives when she doesn't do so when a predator targets the most vulnerable in the herd...
I am sure joeandbarb can fend for himself on this. But I have fallen victim on this site to what follows as well. For those of you posting "Because there is no god" as an answer to joeanbarb's post I think you are missing the point. Of course all of us here do not believe there is a god. No need to reiterate that notion in this community. The frame of joeandbarb's post is directed at Christians who believe there is a supposedly compassionate, merciful and loving god who would allow for such egregious acts against innocent children. It is perplexing and mind warping to me and joeandbarb when otherwise intelligent people hand over their mind to such nonsensical and contradictory notions. And, for me anyway, I won't speak for joeandbarb, it is cathartic in an odd way to discuss these subject matters with others of like mind. We are not looking for an explanation. Even though joeandbarb's post did say "Try to explain...". I am sure the members here are bright enough to know that he was being facetious. We know there is not a plausible explanation.
Now as for me and my experience in Christianity these questions were met with "Its not for me to judge what god allows" which is the same as placing your head in the sand or placing your hands over your ears and yelling "blah, blah, blah". Its just one of those dilemmas that was swept under the rug and not discussed.
god is monitoring millions of planets like our's. he's bound to miss a few abberattions .
Now that is funny.
The explainer does not have to sweat it much if he is speaking to believers.
That’s god’s way. Don’t like it? To the highway with you son.
I’m on the highway to hell. Highway to hell. Don’t stop me!!
See you all there.
The only answer most religious people have to this is the free will argument, but this of course if countered by the counter argument that god obvious does not view all his children equally nor love them equally as the free will and happiness of the pervert obviously overrides the freewill and happiness of the victim in this scenario. Or else that "god" is so keen on punishment rather than prevention that he will allow crime to happen just so he can punish and torture the perpetrator afterward.
Either way this proposed god is a sick twisted and evil individual quite at odds with the purported loving god of the NT.
How can we have "free will" when some god constantly meddles in people's affairs. People, invariably become puppets doing what they think (or are told) their god wants them to do.
@JackPedigo You can use that same argument about the police, governments, churches or even parents.
So accepting for the sake of argument that there is a god for a moment, then a god who is capable of saving a child from assault and does not is not worthy of worship, and this being a god who is omnipresent, all powerful and presumably capable of ending the assault with no damage to either party, one could logically only draw the conclusion he she or it is evil.
However most religious people will still contort themselves in to theological knots to say this is not so, and excuse the hideousness of it with pathetic platitudes, rather than face the obvious truth that the most probable solution and reason for god not saving the child is that there is no god at all.
@LenHazell53 Evil is a human idea. What's evil to some is good to others and what's evil to humans is normal for nature. Remember, nature is red of tooth and claw. Governments and laws are needed to keep humans at bay. Otherwise we would break into constant fighting and disarray. Why is worship necessary for a deist god? Why is it a gods responsibility to keep any species, human or otherwise from harm? Protection of humans is our responsibility and not some ethereal being. We could say, therefore mother nature is evil and where would that get us?
@JackPedigo You are predicating your whole position on humans being inherently "evil" and all nature being "red in tooth and claw" both of which contentions are demonstrably untrue.
However to move on to your major points " Why is worship necessary for a deist god? " it is not, because there is no such thing, worship however even of an imaginary god is necessary if you are a church wanting to exploit the gullible, worship is what is needed to ensure continuous membership, continuous tithing, and continuous authority.
"Why is it a gods responsibility to keep any species, human or otherwise from harm?" again it is not because they he or it does not exist. HOWEVER when a key selling point of a church's god product is that this deity WILL keep you safe, will protect you from evil intent and will watch over you like a father, you have a problem when it does not. The only way around this for religion is that god's loves and protection are conditional on your being "good" and that if harm comes to you it must necessarily be an indicator the you were not good enough, because you do not measure up to the divine idea of perfection as embodied by a god who will allow harm to come to the helpless.
The freewill argument holds no water since in such a case the person who intervenes show more morality than (presuming for the sake or argument it exists) the deity who does not, and can so it may be assumed also has a morally inferior definition of free will that in human terms equates to at best gross negligence.
"Protection of humans is our responsibility and not some ethereal being." this is of course axiomatic and leads us to the conclusion that there is in all probability no god, or slightly less likely there is one but it is completely uninterested in us, which in practical terms amounts to the same thing as there not being one.
@LenHazell53 First off it's not just about Humans. We are not the only species on this planet nor are we superior to the other life forms on the planet. We do not determine what is true and not; it is a natural force and it becomes clear when we are in a pinch (we have reverted to cannibalism under stressful conditions). I am not predicating my position on humans being evil. They are neither evil nor good but only do what they need to do to survive. We have had many discussions on Darwinism on the site about this issue before.
A person who intervenes is also not a B & W issue. There are cases of intervening being immoral. Again, previous discussion on this site on this. There is an experiment known as the "Trolley Problem." I take a different, more realistic approach to this and if someone me something I have not heard before I might listen. Otherwise not.
Seems because they are religious, it gives them a get out jail free card!!!
The reality is it just a hoax so they can get away with being immoral and criminal at the same time!!!
Regarding scientists in hell meme, also:
Let's say God thingie is all "high and mighty", that is higher up on the food chain so to say.
People are animals. Child molestation is a preditor and prey interaction, but not saying its justification by any means. However, for comparison, a wolf eats a rabbit. They are animals. People are higher on the intellectual capabilities food chain and has observed "lesser" animals eat other animals. Has any people, being above wolves, done anything to stop all wolves from eating rabbits or could you say people work in mysterious ways of not ending the terror imposed upon many a rabbit lives?
so god can watch you masturbate but won't stop a child rape?
Maybe some god thingies like that type of stuff. I think I heard once that the Muhammad was into young boys after his supposed encounter with his God thingie experience.
I agree with u 100% but ive actually had this debate with religious ppl, and the argument used is... Just like theres good in the world and god represents this good, theres is also evil and satan represents that, and god doesnt interfere in matters of ppls free will and its one of his ways to test ppls faith. So were basically pawns on a chess board, or puppets god and satan use to combat one another. Yea definitely sounds like a loving compassionate god to me
There goes omnipotency!!!
@Rodatheist lol right