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I have asked on social media, did God know Adam and Eve were going to sin when he created them. It is a paradox. If the answer is no, what happens to omniscience? If the answer is yes, what happens to free will?

MrDMC 7 Oct 27
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6

A more pressing question: why did they have belly buttons?

Isn't this how angels were discovered to be among us? Someone noticed the absence of belly buttons.🙂

5

Can't expect logic from a fairy tale

bobwjr Level 10 Oct 27, 2019
5

And if god knows what will happen, why is he always angry and surprised when it does?

You know, if you read the story carefully, you can tell it's fake. 🙂

5

When they made up the story they didn't think it through all the way.

4

What happens to omniscience, or free will in your example?.....the same thing that happens to all tenets of Christianity upon intellectual inspection.......they completely fall apart.

4

MY VIEW OF THE ADAM AND EVE STORY
Genesis 2:16-17 (New American Standard Bible)
16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

It is important to note that God told Adam….””in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

We know that Satan, the Devil’s, statement, “”……"You surely will not die! “ was true because when Eve ate the “”Apple”” she did not die. God had said “”for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."“ But Eve did not die on the day that she ate the “Apple”

After Eve ate the “Apple”, Adam saw that Eve did not die. He now knew that if he ate the “Apple” he would not die because Eve ate the “Apple and she did not die. So Adam ate the "Apple".

The Serpent, Satan the Devil, also said to Eve…….“”For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." [Genesis 3:5]
Many people believe that this statement was a lie. But it was a true statement. God himself says “”"Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"“ [Genesis 3:22]
This is a very important statement at Genesis 3:22. It demonstrates that Adam did not die a spiritual death, nor had he died a physical death. If Adam could continue eating the fruit of the tree of life he could live forever. He only had to “stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"“

The “Apple” wasn’t poisonous. Eating the “Apple” did not cause death.

Read what God did to make Adam and Eve die……

Genesis 3:22-24 (New American Standard Bible)
22Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--
23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
24So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

By blocking access to the tree of life, with the “cherubim and the flaming sword,” God denied Adam and Eve access to the life giving fruit so that Adam and Eve slowly began to die until they died hundreds of years later. It was like being in a room with the oxygen slowly being depleted until death ensues. Eating the “Apple” didn’t cause Adam and Eve to die. Their death was caused by God denying them the fruit of the tree of life, which was essential to their health and ability to continue to stay alive.

What makes you think anyone on this site wants extensive Babble quotes?

@AnneWimsey true but to understand is to know, it is just information.

IMO the Bible text argues that the story is a fairy tale. I like to point this out if anyone is interested.@AnneWimsey

@nicknotes same question.........and where, exactly, does the babble say it is a fairy tale? Be auseThat would be refreshing, and true, instead of pages of how we are going to hellfire not believing every word as written.........

One can infer the Bible is a fairy tale by analyzing the text of the Bible. That is what I try to show with my comments. @AnneWimsey

4

It's all make-believe. And some of it is not such good make-believe.

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I don't believe you can use reason to understand an event that never happened. So that being said, who's winning dumb or dumber? 😣

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In many of the earlier myths that eventually evolved in to the Jewish creation story, the forbidden action, be it an apple, a box, jar, potion or whatever was simply a test, the object of the object was not the prize of the thing itself but the choice to exercise free will, to realize they were independent beings, alive and free in order to raise up to being an equal of the gods.
The Adam and Eve myth completely inverted this and made the story of apotheosis in to one of a fall and a reason to blame women for all the evils of the world.

4

It's all a paradox and can't be answered. If there is omniscience, then it means that "God" knows what I'm going to do of my own free will, and if there's omnipotence, "He" made me that way; therefore, how can I be blamed for anything? It's like setting up a row of dominoes and being angry when they fall.

The only real answer is that religionists prefer to believe in their god, even when logic dictates he can't possibly exist. Or is insane, if he does...

4

this is what happens when you have too many authors for one book.

g

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This is one of the many reasons that the Christian god as proffered can not exist.

3

I don’t wish to appear rude but social media is not the place to find solutions to those questions. If you want to know what handbags the Kadashians carry you are on the money!

From a secular viewpoint the question is totally irrelevant. However, to find a serious solution, which is no more than a Theological conundrum, look on line for commentaries on the Torah, but they must be rabbinical not Christian.

It’s a thought which has been around for over 2,500 years which many minds have grappled with.

If you seriously want to know, that is where you will find your solution.

I am not really looking for an answer. I just thought I'd bring up an interesting paradox and discussion .

@MrDMC Then that is a brilliant question.

First, we need to acknowledge that the creation myths that refer to Adam and Eve are of middle Eastern origin that date to pre-historic times and are of the oral tradition.

Then understand that they are allegorical and relate to grand theme narratives, much like the stories attributed to Homer. Figures such as Odysseus, Achilles and Hector show how bravery and honour are the important functions of a 'good life' These are tales that identify great and heroic deeds of heroes, to inspire the warriors of the Bronze Age. Oral tradition is used to inform, to enlighten, to entertain, all in one basket. This can be seen in the early Germanic tales as presented by the 'gleemen' declaring how wonderful a king and his court are. Beowulf is a prime example even though the earliest extant text is around C8th, but I may be mistaken on that.

The most likely origin is Persian or before, and presented to Judaism at the Babylonian exilic period around C6th BCE. This is identified by the use of angels and the dualistic contention inherent of Good/Evil, male/female and so forth. Then there is also the conundrum of Gen:1-27 about creating them male and female, in his image. Does this mean that the first man was hermaphroditic and the creator god is both poles and there for no duality exists?

Two creation stories, one referring to duality, the other unity. So did God know? In the dualistic context no, because this god was just another created being like man. The unity question: Yes, all is one, there is no separation and all duality is illusion.

That's a start, anyway!

3

While I understand the point you're making, I just can't deal with religutards anymore.
Asking them to rationalize anything is an exercise in futility.
I just keep going back to the fact that there are no gods, and all religion is nonsense.
I can't entertain their delusions.

3

At that point in time this god was not all knowing--that came later. And, the serpent was not the Devil, that also came later. The beliefs about this god changed over time. It went from being a being, with a human form, that depended on angels (the Satan included) to inform it on what its creation was up to, to being an invisible, all-knowing, being that not only sees what you are doing but knows all your thoughts as well.

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"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he is able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. If he is both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able or willing? Then why call him God?"
Epicurus,
Ancient Greek Philosopher

2

Well that seems to be purely a "poke the tiger" kind of posit. Given the fact that there's no such thing as god, the rest of the question is a moot point, no?

Poke the tiger?

@MrDMC As in never poke a caged or cornered tiger just for fun. They have no sense of humor about it.

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Well it is said by a local preacher that god is perfect all knowing and infallible, with everything being part of gods plan, so yes 'he' must have known. We have the free will to do only what has been ordained by god who exists beyond our science .... lets face it, it's all bollocks. We're because we're here and Adam and Eve are just characters in a story.

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I like this. I haven't actually heard this one before, and its pretty brilliant! Thank you for sharing!

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Thanks for posting. I love theological paradoxes.

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If God knew Adam and Eve were going to sin, why was he angry with them? It couldn't have been a surprise.

Especially when humans were perfectly designed to have sex.

@Ryu-Dad - Mormon believed that Adam and Eve had to gain knowledge - to eat of the fruit of knowledge - in order to have sex and procreate. Perhaps that was why they were so anxious to taste that fruit.

2

Adam and Eve had the free will to sin - or not. God had the free will to create them - or not. I still want to know what was the name of the first chicken, or maybe the first disease germ.

2

When I've pointed out all the contradictions with the Adam and Eve story some Christians simply become angry with me... They never answer why this story is so ridiculous they simply tell me most of the time I'm going to hell for having the audacity to say this is as fake as any story in the Bible.

Hell's not so bad. It's a little town in Michigan, up near Pinckney. The nearest Hell to me, anyway.

What is it with people naming towns Hell?

@Paul4747 I guess once you’ve lived in hell you’re pretty set up for anything else life has to throw at you 😉

2

As fairytales goes, the writers published too soon and forgot to solve some of the plot twists in the story. The authors could not have a recall and republish, and some of them never had the sense to see the problems and paradoxes in their stories. None of it is real.

1

Christians like to say it's free will, but as you noted the still claim God is omniscient. They are mutually exclusive.

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