My, what an interesting story. That sounds worse than been raised by right-wing fanatics. I guess you have a lot of healing to get through. Best wishes.

"...not every opinion carries the same weight."

I'm not tracking. Why should any opinion outweigh another?

@Shawno1972 B/c opinions need to be weighted based on a person's knowledge, education, experience, training etc. In order to have any validity.

@Atheist3 - Opinions? Opinions require no validity. Facts do, but an opinion is never guaranteed to contain those.

@Shawno1972 Exactly, so opinions need to be weighted in order to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I respect other peoples' religions so long as they don't advocate doing harm to others...in which case I come down pretty hard on them.

Yes, that's very much my gut reaction. I've consciously decided I can't save them, nor do I want to...unless somebody comes asking questions, perhaps genuinely wanting to know why I'm not afflicted by religion like everybody else.

Speaking of one’s perceived outgroup in terms of the language of pathology sets the stage for their physical eradication, as Hitler did with the Jews when he spoke of them as viruses. These people hold a worldview that’s different from the one you currently hold. That’s it. They are more like you than different from you. Some of them may even know that.

@skado In your original post, you had used the term “afflicted” when referring to theists. From the use of that term, it appeared you were considering theism as a sort of pathology. My comment was merely to extend the metaphor of “disease” when discussing theism. I bear no particular antipathy towards theists individually, though I must say, neither can I find much empathy for them. My apologies if I was incorrect when I assumed your post was meant metaphorically.

@Azatheist
It wasn’t my post. I don’t mean to sound preachy - I just hate to see people talking about fellow humans that way, even when I do it.

Or like a drowning person fighting the person trying to save them. It’s not really all that complicated. Fear isn’t rational. It’s not easy to deal with, but possible. And when successful, the drowning person will be grateful afterward. I was.

I strive for understanding of the whole Confederate flag, South will rise again mentality. I struggle to see where the logic develops or thought processes take them. It’s an ongoing challenge I imposed on myself. Still working on it.

@Tinocca I lived in the deep South for awhile, observing the "rise again" thing first-hand. Giant chip on their collective shoulders, and fomenting even more racial hatred. Just awful!

Can I use "ardent Faithfools" in a song? What a great word!

@MxMargaret Go for it, I've got no patent pending on the word 'Faithfools,' nor on the name 'Goat-herders Guide to the Galaxy either, so feel most welcome.

another one of our heros.

Yes, but carrying something a bit more powerful than a big stick.

@mischl No real need for anything like a Big Stick, etc, for we carry with us the most powerful weapon of them all, Logic, Reasoning, Sciences and TRUTH.

In my case, I've been resentful of Christians in particular for turning their brains over to Trump, in the name of "god."
I've been avoiding any religious subjects when around religious people, but flew into a rage when talking to my nuclear physicist brother Trumpite. I didn't do well.

@birdingnut i totally understand being resentful. religion was the source of a lot of trauma for me, so i still avoid it whenever i can, and i don’t really build relationships with religious people. it can definitely be difficult.

@basher Yeah, forget about it. The Trumpanzees are not just "supporters," they are believers and worshippers. They are cult followers. They are not in touch with reality. Their minds are simply not open to receiving any new information that disagrees with their programming.

Yes, respect goes both ways. I’m surrounded by born-agains or other Christians: my ex fiancee (I’m boarding with her at the moment), two siblings, a friend down the road, and another friend. They don’t argue with me about religion, and I don’t argue with them about it.

Mischi: Can I use ‘Trumpanzees’ in a song? Haven’t seen that word before.

@Allamanda
The idea that religion is inherently about the supernatural is a very popular (but not informed) modern myth. Religion is a lot of things, not just one. When you go looking for scholarly definitions, they are as numerous as those who propose them.

But at the core of all major world religions you will find a practice (with or without superstitious beliefs). And that practice is aimed at the relief of suffering through the disidentification with ego, which is not a natural state, but one which must be cultivated by practice.

There is absolutely no need for a belief in anything supernatural in order to participate in this practice, and there is no scholarly justification for denying that such a practice is the rightful domain of religion. Thirdly, there is nothing contrary to a scientific understanding of human psychology in the notion of reducing identity with ego.

If I am wrong about this, I would welcome any evidence or rationale to the contrary that I might have overlooked.

The rebuttal I get most often is that a majority think otherwise, but if that’s the criterion we use here, why don’t we feel obligated to be religious simply because a majority are. We know why. Because being held by a majority never made anything true.

@Allamanda
The Dalai Lama is a great example. Arguably the spiritual “leader” of modern day Buddhism, says belief in the supernatural is not important, but practicing in order to gain control over negative emotions is paramount.

@Allamanda
The people who have their minds made up about this will use anything as ammunition in order to support their preferred view, but google world religions and you will always see Buddhism listed.
On the other hand, if you look closely at Abrahamic religions, you will see undeniable references to disciplines that are very well described in Buddhism. They have more similarities than differences. Some Buddhists also believe in supernatural elements, but if you look closely at the supernatural, it’s usually quite understandable if you see it as metaphor for nonmaterial things that we all agree exist when we use nonmetaphorical language to describe them, like attitude, mood, intention, intuition, etc.

It would be snobbery if it were held solely for the purpose of distinguishing oneself from the “others” but if there is good reason to hold such a position, then claims of snobbery could be the same defense we all want to use at first when we encounter a new truth, “Who the hell does he think he is to hold ideas unfamiliar to me; my ideas are plenty adequate, and I’m a well-informed person! He must be a snob!”

So what are the good reasons? The first good reason is that it is supported by the evidence. Study any major world religion and you will find, among all its local cultural trappings, a core practice aimed at the reduction of psychological suffering, and the strengthening of social cohesion. That’s what religions do. That’s what’s consistent about them all.

The second good reason is linguistic continuity. No matter what word you use to replace “religion” with, it won’t have anywhere near the historical recognition religion does. Sure, many people have ill-informed associations with that word, but that’s better than no association at all. If I say gazornumplatz instead of religion, people are going to have to ask me what I mean, and then I’m going to have to say, you know... religion!

The third good reason is, I can’t, in good conscience, abandon the historically most powerful cultural institution ever invented, to those who misunderstand and abuse it. The ignorati don’t own religion. Religion is an emergent property of Homo sapiens, and as such, it is here to stay. It will be managed and directed either by the ill-informed or by the better-informed, and I believe the better-informed will be better stewards.

The fourth good reason is, my own religious practice compels me to seek consonance, wherever possible and practical, instead of succumbing to the more “natural” inclination toward dissonance. This requires effort, but is conducive to peace instead of war.

Our real-world circumstances are massively, if not perhaps entirely, at the mercy of language. Worldview is dependent on language. Intelligence is dependent on language. Language is arguably what makes us human. All human struggles unfold first in the realm of language before they boil over into the practical world.

Peace begins with language. War begins with language. Words, spoken or thought, are prior to action. It’s a lot more economical to stop a thought than to stop a bullet.

It’s practical, and economical to seek consonance with all fellow humans, instead of retreating to the security of our tribes and declaring all “others” wrong. One way is effortful, but leads to peace. The other way feels better but leads to war. Eighty percent of my fellow humans claim some kind of religious orientation. It makes more sense to me to do the work of looking for common ground, if any exists, than to write them all off as irredeemable, or worse. And, much to my surprise, when I look, I find that it does exist! We can preempt material problems with non-material (thought-based) interventions if we are willing to do the work. All humans have more in common than in difference.

And the fifth good reason is that I am not afraid of identity cooties.

@Allamanda
If you don’t like that word, you shouldn’t use it. What word would convey the sense of a practice, aimed at “spiritual” (psychological) transcendence of natural suffering (compounded by modern complexities)? What single word best describes all of the world’s combined, so-called wisdom traditions, at least the parts of them that are aimed at transcendence practices?

@Allamanda
Well, that’s a good thought. That would make a fitting symbol. I’ll vote for that!

and that applies equally to everyone, religious or not.