The communist party has a pact with the population. They give the population an increased standard of living and the population doesn't mess with the party. So far that has been a workable agreement. We'll see how that goes in the future.

@rogueflyer that basic setup everywhere. A party controlling the government claiming the best interest of the people.

But the real criteria is how a minority group feels about the government. Would said party win any awards for minorty representation?

I don't know much about the Uigur customs, Heathen. Personally I try to avoid generalizing bad customs of a group unless I know they all do this.

@rogueflyer

Okay. So can you go with all women are treated as second class citizens by the Muslim religion? If not, would you be willing to say it is 80%?

If your not willing to voice out against a group unless 100% of it is doing something bad, do you feel then it is still okay if the portion of that group which isn't doing something bad, passively enables the fractional population which is perpetrating a bad deed?

@Heathenman Yes, I think I would agree that women are generally denigrated by most all religions everywhere and especially fundamental religions that follow written manuscripts from over a thousand years ago. I just don't know the particulars of the Uigur. Have a good holiday.

@rogueflyer And let's not forget about places outside of religion too. It may be that without religion some of the people might be a lot worse. But definitely an organized belief system whether it's religion or culture that gives approval to beating, mutulation or murder needs to have a goal of stops put in place. I don't think the best way to achieve that is this way. Surely the government could enact and enforce laws against the practices without concentration camps, remarriage, and highly intrusive use of technology.

"but what is the cost of releasing Muslim belief systems"

I don't know what "releasing a belief system" means. There is no way to hold a belief system captive. People are not their beliefs. You can hold people captive. You can't hold a belief system captive.

@Flowerwall Yes, I agree. I personally don't believe in reeducation camps. I believe the government has a history of control over its population. This may be due to large and varied cultures of China. It would be a complicated task and one that is in part accomplished with their "intrusive use of technology". China has an accelerated push in AI.

@rogueflyer Prior to this discussion I didn't think I had realized the full amount of everything that has occurred there and most likely there is more that I, or we, don't know of. It's highly unsettling to think about. I just came across an article today regarding Australia and the threat the nation is feeling from China. As much as we are lulled into a general sense of safety and peace, the fact is wrongdoing abounds in this world and is a constant ever-growing threat.

@Flowerwall Yes, it's unsettling. You want to be an idealist but reality forces you to be pragmatic.

Although China is a large country with a huge population the people I spoke to seem to be very proud of Chinese accomplishments and are happy with their government. This was in mainland China not HK or the countryside. I'm sure the business community may have a more positive opinion of their countries direction than a rural resident.

@rogueflyer Well sure of course the citizens say that. Can you express other ideas in that circumstance? You are expected to say "It's all great here." I know not every person feels that way. Take a look at the history.

@Gwendolyn2018 I fully believe that. I don't think anyone ever lives in a free, democratic society and thinks it's a bad form of government. I don't think anyone ever says I would prefer to be less free.

@Gwendolyn2018 I can understand not wanting to go back after the American experience. I certainly wouldn't want to live there under communist rule. I find the Hmong in Laos to be warm and friendly very laid back and easy going though. Not terribly ambitious but one of my favorite visits. China is investing big time in Laos with hydro elect and roads. Vietnam has been at war with China off and on for over a thousand years as recently as 1979 where VN claims over 50,000 Vietnamese were killed. China has been investing in VN lately but the Vietnamese are very warry. Prior to trump administration, the average VN was looking to an alliance with the US.

@Gwendolyn2018 Sounds like you have had some great experiences. Benefits of your profession. Yes, the city dwellers spoke down on life in the country. Be well.

You're welcome

I think the ruling Chinese believe they have the best political system (state-directed) just as we do with our form of democracy. This remains to be seen as our current environment shows the problems with uninformed voters, cultish following of a reality TV personality and easy access of foreign powers to our system.

@rogueflyer Humans suck
That's the bottom line.

You are correct. The fascist Luni doctrine masquerading as a religion is far bigger threat to the planet than climate change. Only a few countries successfully resist. In Uganda islam is illegal. So it is in many countries, but only Uganda enforces it. I applaud Japan. If you are stating that you are a muslim you need not apply for a visa or stay. China is the biggest keeper of keeping islam enslaving others, unfortunately they do it the only way that is expedient, by dictate. But as long as people will breed like rats and soon dying en mas of hunger perhaps being gentle would not be possible.

Unlike Evangelicals, right?

Eastern Lightning, a.k.a. the Church of the Almighty God is an issue in China. Big end times cult.

get the facts: Hordes of invaders, invited and financed by world non-profits that are ultimately supported by that destructor Soros are gently housed, fed, de-loused etc etc. I went to see how the building of wall I support is going. Right next to the construction were sitting on the ground about 60 invaders, perhaps third were young waiting for the border patrol transport to their hotel. Yes, they live in a camp, yes, they should not live in Holiday In as a reward for invading our country, Let them invade Iran or Saudi Arabia. This invasion has only one goal: To destroy USA. Perhaps the creation of the shit country conditions in their countries is in the plan. Do not the USA have enough unemployable illiterate, antisocial people? The answer is not enough number needed by liberals to destroy. Any mayhem is good news for liberals. That is why all respect for authority, police, parents is systematically destroyed.

@69ArizonaJerry The Facts: we have a rapidly declining birthrate/workforce.....without immigration our economy, goods, services (like eldercare!) will be non-existent in the near future. Your racism will result in total destruction of our way of life. It is Always the motivated immigrants (italian, Irish, Vietnamese. etc etc etc) that have upheld & improved our economy.!

I'd respectfully disagree concerning Atheism. On a recent trip to China, I asked my business friends if they were Buddist. The reply was that the Chinese are not religious. China is a big country with many cultures. This was in Shenzen, sort of the ultra-modern hi-tech area of China. I believe they identify as nonreligious as a country just as the US tends to identify as Christian. We may not be but try and run for leadership in the US as an Atheist.

@69ArizonaJerry An invader is an armed military force entering your homeland by force, not a bunch of women and kids fleeing Cartels we create with our war on drugs, which of course funds them by driving their prices up. Same way we created Al Capone.

@Gwendolyn2018 No, it was a business trip. The folks I came in contact with spoke excellent English. It would be rare to find an English speaker in the country. That said China has initiated a merit system wherein you build browny points for sticking to the party line. Also, you cannot be a member of any religion and be a communist party member.

@rogueflyer There is a big difference between chinese people claming to be atheists, and the Chinese Government declaring China to be Atheist. Many religions exist in China, the Gov does not support them (we are not supposed to either)

@Davesnothere Yup, I adree.

Honestly, I went to Dachau when I was stationed in Germany, and since then have thought it would benefit all to do a similar thing, especially as the survivors doe off, it is hard to go and speak to survivors now.

@LimitedLight I was going to point that out. Thank you.

Not for nothing, it's not really just the communists in China doing this kind of thing.
This type of behavior is as old as "humanity" itself.
Granted, it's wrong no matter who is doing it, but for anyone to act surprised that it's happening again seems disingenuous.
Especially given that's pretty much what the prison system in this country is doing.
Not to mention all the "re-education" forced on the indigenous people of this country.

All this is is just another opportunity for white people to criticize. Laughable.

Sure, blame the white people... how racist, indeed. Place the blame where it belongs, on the self proclaimed Master Race, or was the Chosen People of God? They gave us communism too, Moses Mordicai Levy wrote under the pen name Karl Marx. Oy Veh. ~ www.nkusa.org

@ExculpatoryLover Your response is ever so interesting. I never mentioned race or religion.
This is just more of the same bullshit humans have been doing to humans.

You can stuff your righteous indignation.

@KKGator ~ You grouped white people together and disparaged them... no different from doing the same to blacks, browns, yellows or reds... only when all ethnicities and races are treated with equal respect... otherwise racism is being expressed. But I understand... the controllers of society through their Media Empire have normalized blaming the white people to cover for those self professed Chosen People of God where so much racism begins.

@ExculpatoryLover Did I say anything that wasn't/isn't true?
No, I did not.
I stand by what I said.
Stuff your righteous indignation.

I will disparage white people when we deserve it. I will disparage
anyone I want to disparage when I think they deserve it.
I don't go for that whole "controlled by media" bullshit.
I don't respect everyone. I don't care about ethnicity or race.
I think "cultural appropriation" is bullshit and it's been happening for
millennia.
The only race is the human race. All that other stuff is nothing more
than distraction to me.
I don't like people. I think humans generally suck.
And SJWs make me laugh.

I'm going to do, think, and say, whatever I please.
I'm not all that concerned about offending anyone.
Go ahead and block me. You won't be the first, or the last.

@KKGator By all means, disparage individuals as they need it, but be a RACIST when you group all together like you did. Grouping people by skin color is wrong... PERIOD. Now grouping people together because of an arbitrary choice they made, that is different as they chose that; but no one choses their race, ethnicity, gender or how old they are. Please stop the hate.

Also, please stop making up shit... no religion here pal.

@ExculpatoryLover Nope. Hate is an absolutely normal human emotion, and every bit as valid as all the others. I get to hate whatever I think is deserving of it.

Hate will never stop. Love doesn't fix everything. Believing that it does is just plain silly, totally ineffectuve, and delusional.
Love didn't stop Hitler and the nazis.
Had to kill all those motherfuckers, not love them.

I grouped white people together because white people ARE the most guilty of perpetrating racist crimes against others they don't see as being like them. In this country and others.
If you want to call me racist for calling out white people for being some of the worst racist assholes around, you go right ahead.
I'm not going to feel badly about you not knowing what you're talking about.

Lastly, what did I "make up"? Please be specific.

They are an atheist and not a secular because they actively fight and remove any and all dissent or critique of the communist party.

This has the end result of not allowing or systematically persecuting religion and individuals.

When you ask if they are committing though crime, the answer is a big fat ugly yes.

The China government look at all religions as a possible superstitious, foreign-driven, tightly organized, dangerous group. There is one culture encouraged in China and that is the state-sponsored view. Any religious group is watched closely and subject to various forms of persecution.

@rogueflyer, @Happy_Killbot Thanks for the insight, guys.

I spent nearly a year in the Middle East... an infidel is someone who does not believe in the Abrahamic God. In other words, it is a false claim to say Muslims persecute Christians or Jews, they do not. They do persecute the fake Christians and fake Jews, those who claim to be a Christian or Jew and not strictly follow the religion. BTW... 35% of Palestinians are Christians, not all of them are Islamic followers. Wrong is wrong,, making moral distinctions like it is no big deal for COMMUNIST China since other nations also commit crimes against humanity is a big part of why the world is fucked up and atheists are equally to blame on this. FACT.

....and Palestinians!

so you are condemning Chinese muslim due tot he behavior of Arabs muslims?
What is the sense of it.
This is the same arguments Christians use when they say that they were victims in Arab countries or atheists/socialists countries thus they can "defend" themselves in Christian countries...

Makes no sense at all, you atheist commie that is a threat to american Christian way XD

@Pedrohbds Your reply is based on completely false premises.

@PBuck0145 ok

@PBuck0145 no, you are attempting to disguise treating a group like dirt. Because of unreasonable predjudice.

No Fearless, not expecting any agreement only encouraging discussion and having our group think about how we and others treat religions, cultures and the greater society. Do you have any thoughts on this subject?

@rogueflyer [cfr.org]

@FearlessFly Excellent link Fearless. Thanks for identifying. Although Article 36 of the Chinese constitution says that citizens “enjoy freedom of religious belief.” The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is officially atheist. The party prohibits its nearly ninety million party members from holding religious beliefs, and it has demanded the expulsion of party members who belong to religious organizations.

@rogueflyer Besides mine (and your original), there is only one other link to "evidence". Way too much "bloviating" for me.

Some of my views are from firsthand experience in country.

@rogueflyer Anecdote(s) are not data !

[psychologytoday.com]
[en.wikipedia.org]
[scientificamerican.com]