@hankster You started to pick up on my meaning in your second reply, but unfortunately did not take it all the way to the point I was making.

@hankster I have come a long way in my thinking since stumbling upon causal determinism some years ago. Namely, I find value judgment based on perceived intelligence to be odious.

@hankster I think there are better ways to judge individuals, and thankfully I'm not alone in this belief.

@hankster Consideration for what, though? Life? Society? Having children? The workforce? Perhaps you see the conundrum it creates when we start to want to decide what merits people ought to be afforded based on such judgments. It's a slippery slope. It is relatively easy to measure competence for things like profession, and if that was all you seemed to be advocating I'd be perfectly fine with it. But you seem to want to take it further, and that's where I have to draw the line.

@hankster Yes, I understood what was implied by your joke. That is precisely why I said what I did. BTW - was there a time when our society wasn't silly?

@hankster That was a pretty good comeback.

@hankster I appreciate the clarification, thank you. I think you can see where I'm coming from, too. I don't think the people we might classify as "stupid" can really help it, and so I'm not interested in finding any means or reasons to single them out. Moreover, many of the people in my life who I might judge as simpletons could be much better off in terms of overall peace of mind. Either way, I estimate my country's people are collectively smarter than they have ever been, at least in terms of general awareness and education, and that's something I find worthy of encouragement.

Dont you mean... QI tests? Hehehehhehehehehe hahahahhaha

@MarkiusMahamius sigh day drinking at your aunts again, eh?

@1of5 nah dog, I'm home alone

@MarkiusMahamius so no one is helping you drink the half gallon of vodka?

@1of5 ff7

@MarkiusMahamius ahh, uhm, I see.

Its true, all the high stakes, normed tests are based on reading. Children with college educated parents are more likely to do better on these tests due to influence and resources found in the home.

Marginalized communities and low income households rarely have reading matter in the home. Eating and paying rent takes precedence over providing reading material. And yes there are always exceptions to the rule

Boris is actually more to our taste. Despite all the crap, he is NOT trump. He is way more center than reported.

Boris is moral, reasonable, principled. Trump is amoral, a 10 year old narcissist, that cares only for himself.

Not sure about the PM in AU.

@Jacar I do have to disagree with you there about Boris being moral. How many children does he have out of wedlock for instance, and are you aware that he was sacked from his vice-chairman position, which he refused to resign from after publicly lying, and that is not the first time it happened. A moral, reasonable, principled person he is not.

@Jolanta I was with you for most of your argument, except the bit about children out of wedlock. I don't consider that in itself to be particularly immoral. Is he's caring for the children appropriately? That's a better and wholly different question. I don't know the answer personally as I don't have any interest in Boris or his family, I'm simply making the point that "wedlock" is not necessarily how I judge a person's parental fitness.

@Shawno1972 I agree with you about children out of wedlock, however there would be people religious or not that would find it amoral. I don't have that view.

@Jolanta That is a sad response. Lying about what?
His buses had the total figure of funds demanded by the EU. "Oh they give back 1/3," was the response.
Whether brexit is correct or not (i have my criticisms), it is democracy.

@Jolanta Ahhh, your judeo-christian morals are showing. Does he support the children? that is more of a moral issue for me.

She is not domestically inclined , and not trained in home ecnomics . Males eat , but most are just a bad when it comes to life skills 101 .

@Cast1es Yeah. She was once asked to start a car so it could warm up. She didn't know how to start a car. She said she is worth millions, so maybe she was pampered. But the last time I talked to her, she asked me if she could borrow $200. The answer was obviously no. My friend was sitting right by me, grabbed the phone (it was his - couldn't get video chat to work on mine) and he started screaming at her! He was special ops... so last time I heard from her. lol

Wow

@hankster, I'm including myself in the whole lot, by the way. I confess I'd love to see my score on this...

Look up Gardners' Intelligences (https://www.verywellmind.com/gardners-theory-of-multiple-intelligences-2795161).

We incorrectly limit ourselves by equating intelligence with writing, math, and reading. But their are many more intelligences beyond these three.

@t1nick link not good

@t1nick searched Gardner's, yes, that is about what I am talking about.

Let us look at defination of intelligence - the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

Intelligence is about applying knowledge AND skills.

Dunking a basketball is a skill. IQ text that Test for knowledge only is leaving half of the intellegence defination out of the test, that is skills testing should be apart of a full intellectual capabilities test.

@Word sorry

@Word

The problem is that the tests do not test the way that content is taught. Conversely, content is not taught the way questions are structured on the normative tests. It a problem for teachers. There is not enough support from the home in most school districts to teach the way questions on the test are structured.

It is considered an educational sin to teach to the test. Many schools have been chastised and fined for teaching to the test. This means getting copies of test questions in advance, then prepping students accordingly. That doesnt mean one cannot use practice questions that are similar and drilling in those. However, doing this you sacrifice content coverage and are chastised by District / School Administration for not covering your Stadards. It's a catch 22 regardless.

@t1nick I remember the only high school class debate I was in had to do with the requirement for tests, like those required for graduation. S.A.T.? What ever they are now, and some places have differences.

My side was that test should not be required. If a person does all of the required curicullum and passes according to the high school diploma requirements then the state and government test should not be required to get diploma.

@Word

In New Mexico, we are in flux this year as to diploma and graduation requirements. As it stands by the end of their senior year, a student make their "cut scote" on one of the various normative that they are required to tsk6e; NWEA, SBA, ACT, or the PARCC. Believe or not, they take all these tests yearly. It is required. Teachers generally agree that the students are over tested.

So seniors must make their cut scores in four areas: reading, language and grammer, math and science. Failure to attain cut scores means that they get a diploma, but the diploma is not designated as not having achieved academic success, but have completed all the credits necessary to graduate. Getting all cut scores earns them a certified, and academically successful designation. The distinction can be significant depending on the coarse after graduation a student wants to pursue.

This is the last year we will be offering the PARCC to seniors. We've done away with the NWEA this year. All teachers must research and find an " End of Course" [EOC] assessment for each individual academic subject. If seniors haven't achieved cut scores on the above the standard normative test (PARCC, SBA, or ACT), they have one last chance on the individual EOC.

Next year the state is thinking of inserting the SAT as are normative test for graduation. You might say it's kind of a cluster fuck.

@t1nick There is often chapter test, maybe an end of grading period test, semester final. With technology and a strong teaching to teachers and school testing administers on integrity, I think that the government questions could be incorporated and in a way "hidden " so that students don't know but take regular test as teachers may issue for periods or chapter ending but the selected questions that appease government standards can be collected and evaluated. That's my thought. No extra extensive testing days required.

@Word

These are state and BIE requirements. Not federal government requirements.

The EOC is a comprehensive Semester test. Or a comprehensive year test covering both semesters. I spent the entire Christmas break designing an EOC for physics using questions taken from Glencoe EOC.

Traditionally I would give a unit or chapter test as the final. No longer allowed to.

@hankster

no I think that more closely falls in line with the Darwin Awards. Lol

Yes, BUT 'common sense' is NOT as common as we think.