I've been watching 'Messiah' on netflix recently and it is a surprisingly good show. One thing it brought up which I didn't know was a serious thing was messiah complex which is a mental condition that can warrant treatment . It seems that even atheism has its own type of messiah too. Dawkins Hitchens, Harris etc. Don't really have a question and just found it interesting.
Atheism has no "messiahs".
Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens are/were just very visible representatives, not
messiahs. I think it's quite an unreasonable stretch to imply that the "messiah" label be attributed to any of them.
I don't know a single person who considers them such.
Pretty sure they don't (didn't) consider themselves such either.
Given that there are no gods, anyone who makes the claim had/has a messiah
complex.
Further evidence of religious belief being a mental illness.
Well I'm just so glad we have got some high profile spokespeople for atheism. The merit of science based claims over faith is recognising, we don't know it all and science is continually amending previous claims that are superseded with new evidence. This keeps the likes of Dawkins et al humble as it should all of us.
I actually met a man who believed that he was the returned son of god and was just waiting for directions from god. In every other way he seemed perfectly sane. It was a conversation stopper when he admitted it to the group!
Did they behave as messianic nutcases, not really, so I disagree with your observation. The messianic complex is far from what you think Dawkins , etc. ever did or do and to even portray them at that level is a diservice to their contribution that borders on insulting.
I didn't intend it to be an insult. It's just a description given to a state of mind.
"The term can also refer to a state of mind in which an individual believes that they are responsible for saving or assisting others."
I think the messiah idea is an archetype of the leader, that is, the best leader one could wish for, who could save his people and give up his life for them if necessary. The context, I feel, must be hierarchy which, according to Jordan Peterson, goes back as far as lobsters.
I started watching it and couldn't finish the first episode. I got tired of the self-righteous attitude of the "messiah" and the obvious ties to the god of Abraham. Especially during the interview when he was talking about his "father" and how people would soon learn who it was. I could be wrong, but the god he was talking about isn't one that I have any interest in whatsoever and in no way would I consider it a "savior".
It was also not credible as I see no way that Israel would have cared that there were refugees sitting outside their fence. In the real world, it might get on the news, but there would also be rationalizations by the Israeli government as to their lack of responsibility. They would have let them starve.
I could be wrong, but I would like to take this opportunity to tell everyone to go watch the new Watchmen Series on HBO instead. At least the "god" in that one shows up and isn't talking about his dad.
The messiah show develops quite interestingly actually as the messiah guy gets investigated. It exposes the need to believe kind of like the life of brian style. It is a good show.
@redbai Saying you haven't seen the The Life of Brian or the Holy Grail is like saying you haven't seen The Sound of Music. (I hate musicals but i've still seen the thing).
"Watchmen" is REALLY good. I watched the eighth episode three times it was so well crafted, and I never do that anymore.
I watched the first three of Messiah, but so far found the writing predictable and mediocre (the main actors are strong). I find the idea interesting, but the only two options is that he is some kind of con man (the weakness of the writing so far doesn't suggest to me that they could pull that off), or he's really "The Messiah" within this fictional story...which is blasphemous to believers and to atheists (at least this one) a story cheat. If the way the character pulls off magical miracles is because he's a god who can do that sort of thing, I shrug. That's the direction I'm guessing it goes, but I haven't watched the rest yet.
@redbai the parent reference is a quote from Life of Brian.
I don't see Hawkins or Harris acting in a manner that would warrant messiah complex or the treatment thereof, though they do exhibit some levels of arrogance now and again. I forgive it, because they seek to promote truth for truth's sake, and it's still a far cry from narcisissm.
Me neither. I blame the fanboys.
Hey I also just watched all the episodes available in Australia and also found it interesting from this perspective: as an aitheist I dissmissed everything supernatural and all the parallels with the jesus myth as well, so what I was left with was someone trying to bring peace to the planet. I myself have been trying to help this come about insofar as I present ideas that others have presented before. So the most evident problem that confronted me from the series is just how difficult it is to progress our planet to recognise everyone as one and enable the wellbeing of all of us. So I am very interested in what happens next as I am up to him (Mesiah) walking away from a plane crash and healing a few jews. Point is what would it take? Certainly I
will not live to see it.!
Any witnesses to the supernatural and the Jesus myth died long before there accounts were widely disseminated. The bible as we know it was not universal till 380 years after his death. It was transcribed and edited by clerics gathered by Roman Emperor Constantine. The disparate factions where feuding over the books meany books some of which did not make the final cut. I think Jesus Christ may well be divine A book written by subjects of Roman under duress to quell a rebellion I am sure is not the unvarnished word of the God of Christians Muslims and Jews. Fun fact Constantine though his wife converted some time before he himself did not until his bible was declared the one true word.cisco
I must confess I binged it to completion over the last couple of days. Don't judge, I'm a teacher on vacay who's been sickish for 2 weeks....Anyhow, I thought it was pretty uncreative, full of the usual tropes. Israelis portrayed as evil for protecting their borders, Arabs as terrorists, blacks rioting, women trying to have babies,. Christians as sheep....it only got interesting when the skepticism and Tom- foolery kicked in. My opinion.
Recently heard a Hebrew scholar lecturing about the language. He said messiah is the word for military commander, while the word for those who believe in Jesus is melkizedek. Jesus was not their messiah because he did not lead a rebellion against the Romans. Oh well... just saying, people hate to be corrected.
No one has mentioned this new movie yet?
hadn't even heard of this yet !
Haven’t heard of it, but the trailer looks better than the first season of Messiah that I just binge watched.
Heard of it and really looking forward to watching it, worked in psych for 30 years so can relate!
I enjoyed the series. A lot of it was "What if", on the lines of Peter Gabriel's "Salisbury Hill" or a recent UK version of Noah that used the UK version of "Shameless" actor David Threlfall.
What would we require for belief? How much would such a person be discredited/used by the media and others?
As long as you look at it as entertainment. Then there is no problem. After all, you do not have to believe in dragons to watch Game of Thrones.
I just saw "Peter Gabriel's Solisbury Hill" mentioned! YAY! But carry on, I've no idea what your convo is about.
@MsDemeanour 'Messiah' on NetFlix, A plausible scenario (miracles aside) set in modern-day.
Yes!
We are all victims under trump and the obstructionist fascist republicans using various messiahs complexes to undermine our lives, safeguards, and protection we earn as members of this country for the last 242 years!!!
It is all about control and power over us!
It is pure domestic abuse they use in their pursuit to profit off our backs!
They quote a individual that never existed and never will as an example of how we should be and live with one another with the wealthy and their corporations holding complete dominance and dominion over us!!!
I worked in a psych-hospital the ward had a half hour contact group after lunch ran by the ward Dr. There was a new patient who had a messianic complex the doctor asked another patient who thought he was Jesus what he thought about this. He said with out missing a beat " It goes to show how crazy some people can be"
Savior complex - The illness is far deeper than just being an authority or spokesperson for a cause, or even having a large number of orbiters.
It is a compulsion that drives an individual beyond reasoned thought to further their cause.
For instance, one of the aspects of animal horders (and there are several aspects - one day, the DSM may even address it) is an overriding "Save Them ALL" attitude. The horder is so fixated on the salvation aspect fulfilling their compulsion that they are blind to the suffering they are causing (poor housing conditions, poor health, lack of fresh food, general neglect and overpopulation since they can't afford to spay/neuter every one of their wards).
There is a vast difference between these destructive behaviors and people like Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, etc., who have a platform and an axe to grind.
A messiah complex (Christ complex or savior complex) is a state of mind in which an individual holds a belief that they are destined to become a savior. The term can also refer to a state of mind in which an individual believes that they are responsible for saving or assisting others.
so yes it does apply to strident speakers for atheism too.
That would be pretty open to interpretation. An influencer of any kind. Perhaps... A basketball coach? A boss? A father,mother, aunt, uncle? A football coach?A teacher? A policeman?
I really don't see many who this definition does not leave out, if strictly applied to just about any adult.
Sadly, I am intimately familiar with the Messiah complex. It really has little to do with religion. It is a state of mind .... or I would like to say, "A reflexive internal dialogue." That holds the individual must be rescuing someone to be worthy of love from them. ..... Or another perspective ... the ideal door mat. It's a hard sad way to live and harder to shake.
I just binge watched all 10 episodes. I’m about to reveal some parts of the show so if you plan on watching it and don’t want to know anything about it, move on to the next comment.
When I saw Roma Downey’s name in the credits, I new it was supposed to be religious... I watched anyway. When the messiah walked towards the hurt dog I assumed he was going to heal it, he shot and killed it instead. No way would A real messiah have done this, so I decided he must be a hoax. When he walked on water, that part was kind of hidden from the Netflix viewer. That was a perfect time for anyone watching him to discredit him. Either he did or he didn’t. Later they lead you to think he was going to heal a young girl, but he doesn’t and she dies. At the end of the series he supposedly lives thru a plain crash and starts healing the other passengers on the plane. In my opinion, he was not a Very Christ-like messiah. Because the show involves Roma Downey, If there is a season 2, my guess is that the messiah in this season will be the anti-Christ in the next season.
No, you don’t get it, not everyone gets to live, that’s not what a messiah does!
I enjoyed it. Found it most intriguing. Can't wait for season 2.