you're not much of a romantic are you? lol

I had a civil service. A wonderful man. 4 wonderful kids. The only thing I could've asked for is that he lived for longer so we could have been grey nomads.

Do what works for you.

My marriage had nothing to do with religion. Everything to do with expectations of others, rather than my own.

I got married without really thinking too much about what it meant. I felt tricked into the marriage (that's another story) and was just going along with what was expected of me, I thought. Everything in me wanted to say no, but I'd said no to 5 other suitors previously, and felt I should say yes before my little sister's wedding a few months later. Silly me, I thought all of us siblings should get married in order, which now I realize was ridiculous. Anyway, my marriage was a big mistake.

I really did not want to get married and had a hard time letting go of the wedding invitations into the mailbox. Just didn't want it to happen, but I didn't have anyone to talk to about it. My mom was pre-occupied with her new life, as my dad had just died. My sister was pre-occupied with her own wedding. My brother had just had a baby... My life wasn't important to anyone enough to hear me out with my apprehension, least of all the guy I married, who never cared or listened to what I was feeling or saying.

We didn't meet with the judge prior to the wedding, so we didn't have a say in the vows. To this day, I still think that had we met with the judge/officiant in advance and had to define our marriage and agree to our vows, I likely wouldn't have gone through with it.

I was married 29 years - it was very difficult to get out of a mistake that only took 10 minutes to make.

That is why now that I am a wedding officiant, I like to meet with my couples in advance, and ask them what it is that they like about each other, what do they like about themselves when they are with each other, what do they each bring to the marriage in the way of emotional support, etc., and I ask them to choose their own standard vows or write their own. So, it's a bit like pre-marital counseling, not just to make me feel better, but hopefully also makes for a richer fuller feeling of commitment and positive reasons to them to stay together.

I would never have been able to answer the questions I now ask my clients without leaving the room and saying "I don't want to do this - I don't want to lose myself - I want someone to believe in me - be on my side..."

Now, I usually have a good feeling with the couples I marry, and many of them come back to renew their vows, taking stock of what is good in their marriage and focusing and celebrating that, for their own inspiration and that of others.

All that said, I think it's good to not get drawn into just having a "wedding" but really think about the partnership, what your expectations are, what you think are the strong points in the marriage, what things you know might need extra attention, and so on. This is something I never did.

By the time I was married 25 years, my husband wanted to renew our vows (since by then he knew I wanted out) which made me want to gag - there was nothing to celebrate in our marriage - it was miserable. It took me 4 more years to get the divorce. That's a lot of my life wasted in misery - for a 10 minute ceremony.

My advice to couples is to think about why they want to get married.

I like Leonard and Penny's relationship solution BEST (from the The Big Bang Theory):

Marriage like many other ceremonies was coopted by the church. Christian weddings didn't start until about 1600ce.

Lets back up a bit. We are apes. We are social animals with a high sex drive and usually an inherent desire to have children ( this includes everyone ). We tend to seek one mate but not always. If we do choose only one other ape to be with we tend to want to show our commitment or publicly lay clam to our favorite ape.

We can be selfish, we do change personally, the ape we love may become attracted to another ape or we might do the same. We are still apes. Our social structure is very complex. Evolution does not care about legal contracts this type of apes do.

My point is I don't know that marriage is something that is symbiotic to our evolution. It seems foriegn to evolution. I'm not knocking marriage but it seems to be put on an unrealistic pedestal.

I have been marride twice and was very commited to both of them. I was married young and have found that the most important thing is to give as much as possible to ones favorite ape, to communicate with them and have frequent grooming! I don't need to OWN another ape again. I am not against marriage but it is not somthing that I need to do either. Marriage is more for others than the ape couple it seems. I will reject the religiois aspects of marriage and simply COMMIT MYSELF to my favorite ape.

I have said for a long time now that, as far as the government is concerned, marriage should be a contract entered into by consenting adults. The terms of that contract are up to the individuals in question. You should not have to take any kind of "vow;" but the signing should be witnessed by a clerk, a notary, an attorney--whomever is preferred.

Beyond that, the people involved can have a wedding ceremony with vows if they want, or just a reception, or go to McDonald's for dinner-- whatever they want to do to celebrate.

I should state-- if they should choose to go to McDonald's for dinner to celebrate, I would have to question whether they were of sound mind when they signed the contract .

Getting married is not much different than getting a dog license; it is akin to giving the government one more reason to interfere with your life.

I have been married twice and see Marriage as an outmoded and inefficient structure.

This bleeds into gay rights because they want equal treatment under the law (which all deserve), but struck me as "Why in hell do you want to adopt a religious notion?"

Civil unions for all, under the state, seemed to me a better path. Marriage reserved strictly for the religious institutions which favor them under that particular dogma.

I hope society evolves to a more civil outlook, allowing everyone a civil union with the same rights, a even playing field so to speak.

I also think that a default responsibility act would be a good thing to have, a default shagging contract. If your shagging, you are, by default, responsible for children created by that process, and any other circumstance created intentionally or unintentionally via shagging.

I think marriage is an outmoded concept.

Not everyone uses those elements in their vows. At any ratei think it's a stretch to blame divorce rates on the vows -- or to think divorce is always a bad thing.

g

I think a lot of marriages fail because people are too quick to jump into things. My husband and I were together for almost 13 years before we got married.

We've been through some shit. The kind of shit that sometimes rips relationships apart. Ours somehow never faltered. We are stronger for it. We couldn't picture our lives without each other so marriage just made sense. No religious meaning or worry about what afterlife punishment might happen if we didn't. Just love.

Side note: Many people describe marriages 50/50, but that's not right in my opinion. It should be 100/100. You must be willing to give 100% of yourself for that person and they must do the same for you. If not, it's probably not going to work.

I was married, at 20, in 1984. The second youngest of a large clan of cousins, all catholics, I'd been the first, to openly live with my man (my first!), before our wedding. I was the black sheep; an overt sinner. (Never mind the big church weddings, for numerous swollen-bellied brides in white.)
I was chastised, for choosing to wear a white full-length dress, "how dare you!", "you've no right!". Truth being, MiL2B had offered to make the dress, but wasn't happy to work with black-on-black; so, white was just my next preferred option.

We married on top of the steps, in the rose garden, of the local Teachers' College; looking over the celebrant, our friends gathered below, and the views of our home city, in Autumn. There were no references to imaginary friends, theist traditions, or unrealistic expectations. I promised to love him for the rest of MY life; and I have, so far.

He was killed in a car accident 5+ years later. Beyond my control and his (previously stated) wishes, his funeral was a full hour catholic mass. It was, for me, like pulling lengths of veins, from my heart, via my wrists. I'll never forgive the theists for torturing me, when I was at my most pained, weak and vulnerable. How dare They!

I haven't remarried, and only attempted to re-partner, briefly, a few times. I've been un-partnered for the past 22+ years. I have a home, mortgaged to the max, and there is no way I would entertain the idea of co-habiting, and risk losing my home.

Marriage, to me, is a legal contract with emotional filigree, and a wedding is a pronouncement of legal intentions for emotional, ethical and logical reasons. Perhaps these contracts should have optional caveats. (I didn't need any, but my husband did. In my future, I would need many.)

Perhaps, an interrogatory document needs to be completed by all marriage applicants, a legal contract is spat out of a computer that includes all the legal agreements needed, between these two specific applicants. And then they can, later, sign & celebrate, or not.

It's 2020. There'll be an app for that!

My wedding vows were secular and the minister had paid $1 to be certified by the Universal Life Church. There was nothing in my ceremony or marriage that was dependent on religious expectations

It is true that religion has attempted to take control of the institution of marriage. But, religion did not begin the practice. Marriages fail for several reasons, among them that (1) young people sometimes are overwhelmed by their raging hormones, and fail to see the incompatibility of personalities, (2) the self-centeredness of one or both the spouses prevents them from seeing and attending to the needs and concerns of the other, (3) unwillingness to assume and exercise responsibility. A good marriage is always a work in process, and attends to the needs and concerns of both spouses.

"A man is incomplete until he is married. After that, he is finished." - Zsa Zsa Gabor

It's not true that the structure of marriage is based on religion unless you allow it to be.

My wife and I are devout atheists, but we got married in a church (to please relatives). The legally binding part is the civil registration of the marriage, which even the church is obliged to do. Nothing to do with religion, at least not in a truly secular state.

Most people marry for the wrong reasons or are together for the wrong reasons.

I'm in agreement.
Marriage should be treated like the legal contract that it is.
Requirements and expectations should be spelled out prior to entering into
any marriage.
There should be renewal periods, where both parties are permitted to amend
the original contract, or exit entirely, without penalty.

The extremely high divorce rates , are due to the fact that women are able to earn enough to live on and no longer have to put up with being treated badly . This is due in combination of laws against disparity in salaries for the same work , women being able to make purchases and receive medical treatment without having to report to a man first , and also due to more reliable contraceptives , which women have more control over . God had nothing to do with it one way or the other .

I don’t think marriage has anything to do with religion. It’s a very useful universal social construct that has be historically framed with religion.

Secular weddings are also a thing. And fall apart just as easily.

Based on my personal observations, I think people enter into, or rather insinuate themselves into relationships for many reasons other than true emotional attachment.
You also mention failed expectations. That right there is the death of many a fine relationship.

I don't even think a contract is a good idea. People should stay in a relationship for as long as they agree they want to. Sticking yourself into a legally binding agreement to be with another person makes no sense whatsoever.

That does not mean we shouldn't take into consideration what may be in the best interest of any children, if they're in the household. Sometimes we have to set aside what we want in order to best serve our kids, of course. But that doesn't require a contract, either.

Do what makes you happy. I don't plan on marrying again, but ya never know. People and thoughts change.

It would be easier if we did something like was being proposed pre 2015 when marriage was opened up to all. One of the DOMA ideas was that "the gays" could have civil unions that were legally identical to marriage (except a few things like changing names and other gender/ownership stuff, iirc) but they couldnt get married. Basically it was a big FU if you wanted your relationship to be religiously sanctioned. Personally i think all of us would be better off if the govt only dealt in civil unions and also avoided the notorious vows about forever stuff, that obviouly are misinterpreted reinterpreted and broken on a regular basis, plus don't add to anyones understanding of the nuts and bolts of a commited partnership. It would make the partnership much clearer, and those who craved the ceremony/vows and/or religious sanction, would have a better perspective on what they were "adding" to their union.
The wedding industry and churches could work out the details for those people.