No kidding! Just a man not a god. LIstening to all the memorials, one would think that there was only two people on the flight.

@Trumpeter Who will pay for my time and expenses to visit his grave to piss on? Also would it not be helping by giving rich ingredients to the ground for beautiful flowers to grow around the dead shitty person?

@Trumpeter The love of money is evil!

@Trumpeter You miss the point. Greed is evil.

@Atheist3 Not universally. Greed is a good motivator even to do good things.

@St-Sinner Cooperatives work better than corporations.

Sky pilot, how high can you fly.

Lol! Well shut my mouff!

Hear, hear!

I wasn't making fun! Obviously you missed the point.

@Apunzelle No it is not. Lousy heroes and their fans adoring them must be called out.

@St-Sinner So take a shot at hero-worshiping fans .. not at a man who’s just tragically died.

@Apunzelle You are not correctly reading my comments. So I will try to explain.

1. A lousy man is a lousy man. Dead or alive. Death cannot change the fact that he was a dog abuser, a rapist and a high school drop-out. He was good in his trade and so are millions of other people. He did not deserve billions of Dollars and certainly the glorification by fans like he was soooo goood. No, he was not good.
2. But the irony is that Kobe Bryant being a lousy man is not the serious thing in this post's comments. The fans who are crying over and chanting his sweet and godly remembrances are really repulsive. These are the people who make heroes of lousy people and criminals like Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston and her daughter. They were drug addicts for heaven's sake. Jackson was a child molester. Our society does not need glorification of lesser people Talk about the real heroes in the society who are doing their noble work without the billions and glorification.

If you feel bad about calling a lousy man lousy after death, there is a problem with your value system, not ours. We are pointing out the facts. Kobe's vices are well publicized. We do not need people who glorify lesser people and put them on pedestals around children because our children need better role models, ideals and examples to learn from.

@Apunzelle, @Atheist3 I will make fun. The whole Kobe Bryant adoration is ridiculous.

@St-Sinner Good grief, you're a jerk. I'm not concerned about him, I'm concerned about his wife and family. All this does is rub salt in a terrible wound and it's not only boorish and rude, it's fucking cruel and inhuman. THIS is the kind of thing that would give fodder to those who say atheists have no concern for others.

@sterlingdean His wife and family are just like millions of grief stricken Americans in this land. You seem to be a jerk by playing i up here. What is so special about Kobe's family? Kobe Bryant had $2 billion life insurance policy and because that was not even, recently the entire proceeds of the NBA game (in millions) were given to the poor wife. Is that what you are sympathizing with? What does that say about your ideals, values?

@St-Sinner It says that I couldn't care less about how much money someone has or how public he is, that I feel empathy for someone who has lost a loved one. YOUR words and actions show a complete lack of empathy, respect for others, and any kind of concern for not only his wife, but his children. You think an insurance policy makes up for losing your father and sister? Good grief, you're just an ass.

@sterlingdean Check your understanding of the word empathy. Empathy is not random, and especially when it is misplaced. I do not have any empathy whatsoever for prisoners who have been convicted for child rapes, murders for example. Empathy is not wholesale and cheap to throw at anybody. That is not empathy. You are feeling empathy for Kobe's wife who is rolling in billions and did not say a word about if she needed another $400 million from an NBA game (paid by poor paycheck-to-paycheck people)? Where are you showing your empathy? That is certainly not good thing in my book. I carefully spend my resources on who deserve them. I am not loose with my values like you and I don't imply that I am better than others for being empathetic with a wrong understanding of the word. You need growing up all over again. Something did not go right. You do not have a good understanding of what compassion, empathy mean and you are ready here to judge others?

@St-Sinner Profound.

@St-Sinner If you have a limited amount of empathy and can only relate emotion to money, I've no problem calling you out on it. You equating rapists and murderers with a woman whose husband and daughter just died is repugnant. I hope when you pass, people don't judge you just for the stuff they found distasteful about you. I will not be responding further, so good day, sir.

@sterlingdean I do not agree with any of your interpretations of what empathy is because it seems weird and your personal. Please use the time on calibrating you better instead of preaching others.

@St-Sinner I really don't think you would understand empathy no matter who died Sheldon lol

The reality of life or death can be a bitter experience.

That doesn’t mean we need to be assholes about it. Just saying ....

@Apunzelle I respect your esteemed opinion.

Against what value system do you proclaim these comments to be "more tasteless", and what imperative do you have to make such an announcement here?
If genuine reactions and feelings cannot even be expressed until they are judged against some arbitrary code of acceptability, then free interplay of ideas must die, though not in a helicopter preferably.

@johan17 well said

Maybe to your taste. I enjoy bashing lousy people especially more when they are dead and their fans start saying stupidly good things about them.

#marionville exactly!

However, this is my point, there are many more people who have contributed to humanity in more ways than KB. The kudos should go to the people who cure disease & not some commercially inflated sports hero.

Couldn’t agree more. This is a tasteless post!

You're mistaken. I don't relish (or mustard) any sorrow. It's the BS that I find irritating. If one wants to applaud the achievement of an individual then I will go with a person who has made a significant contribution to humanity. And not just putting a ball in a hoop!

No one here has said ANYTHING that could be interpreted as "relishing a family tragedy" and you go too far in claiming that they have. The discussion is about misdirected hero worship and the (sometimes), saccharine effusions that sweep away all the wrong doings of the deceased. If tRump were to die from a heart attack or cerebral embolism I would do the Happy Dance til I collapsed from exhaustion, but I would do nothing to hurt his circle of loved ones. Though i would still claim the right to hold my opinion of him, amongst anyone who could be bothered to listen.

@johan17 That is precisely the tone I've interpreted. If I'm mistaken, great, I'm happy to be wrong. Whatever the case, the post seems disrespectful and flippant at best. Hardly worth defending, in my opinion.

@johan17 I said it.

I enjoy relishing in calling out stupid fans who are glorifying a lousy dead man. I surely do.

@johan17 I hear ya!

@maturin1919 He will be less and less remembered. Fans in music are overwhelmed by their heroes, so are the fans in each industry and sector... politics, sports, photography, signing, dancing, the Olympics, car racing.... heroes are magnified by people, industry but mainly by the fans who are overcome with emotions.

When John Lennon was killed, people cried in streets, Princess Diana died, people cried.... which one are we talking about today, every day, every week or every month? The Kobe Bryant fans now want him on the NBA logo? Where is this ridiculous over-powering of people by grief going to stop? Maybe Kobe Bryant on the U.S. Flag is next?

Trust me..... Kardashians will be more talked about than the dead Kobe Bryant starting tomorrow. In this society, we make heroes of lesser people. We made Michael Jackson, the child sex abuser a very big hero, we made the drug addict queen Whitney Houston and cried when she died of a drug overdose. When her drug addict daughter died, we forgot our own shit at home and cried too. We have wrong role models, shitty role models.

For non sports fans, Kobe Bryant is nobody. If he is anybody, he is the dog abuser and philanderer. That is what people will talk about and the gossip magazines will sell.

Do you know who the Teacher of Year of 2019 was? I bet you don't because sports is sucking all oxygen out of you. It was Rodney Robinson - National Teacher of the Year - a prize of just $5,000 (not per second, not per minute, not per hour, not per day, not per week, not per year - just one time a huge sum of $5,000) for the most noble profession that launches a new generation in life with dedication and hard work. Kobe was a high school drop out.

Kobe has a $2 billion life insurance policy that his wife and family will receive. But because that is not enough, the next NBA game proceeds - a huge amount will be donated to Kobe's wife. She is poor and grief stricken, she really needs it. Who will pay for the proceeds... most fans overwhelmed with emotions and who are living paycheck-to-paycheck and carrying a good sum of credit card debt month after month. Well done !!!

@maturin1919

Dog Fighting = [csmonitor.com]
Sexual Abuse = [en.wikipedia.org]

@maturin1919 He is big only in your world. Hall of Fame means no shit to me. My heroes are real achievers in real life who make a difference in other people's lives.

@maturin1919

I am biased against lousy heroes, not atheletes. Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Kurt Cobain, Kobe Bryant were unethical people and criminals. They were lousy human beings, so think about what it says about their ass worshipers who keep defending them. Did you not learn in school what ideals, morals and heroes to look up to and which ones not look up to? It is Growing Up 101.

@St-Sinner - very well said sir. In a world where trash like the Kardashians are Lionised, we really need to re-establish the true definition of heroes.

@johan17 Mother Teresa and Princess Diana died in the same week but we are still talking about Diana here in America. Mother Teresa is kept alive just by the Catholic Church. People do not even talk about her noble work. We in America have nothing in common with the Royals, the monarchy, we fought everything they brought, the metric system, the teas but today we see the British royals on TV and start crying. It tells a ton about the character of the nation. Many of the third world countries do better in this respect. In India for example, it is illegal to use any British titles anywhere in public. This is exactly how we lionize Michael Jackson, the Kardashians, Greta Thunberg and elect Trump for president.

@St-Sinner Mother Teresa was a weirdo, go learn something about her, including her bigotry and love of suffering.

@AnneWimsey Was Princess Diana better than Mother Theresa to cry over for years?

I have visited her place in Calcutta and seen what she did there. Read about her in the papers and from people who met her all the time growing up. People had deep and high gratitude for she did. Isn't that enough to acknowledge or you must some black in a good story?

@St-Sinner I have no feeling for the Princess, just another "housewives" without the goldfish lips. But making that evil crone Teresa into a Saint is just BS!

@AnneWimsey That is a respectable independent thinking i will go with. I like you not joining the chorus. A true mark of free thinking.

The rape or alleged rape was my first thought.

I don't believe he did rape her. The claims of a woman wanting money from a star, and manipulating herself into a position to get it, are hardly worth mentioning. The only people who listen are overly sympathetic Feminists.

@rainmanjr Hmm. You seem to feel very strongly about feminists.

@Jolanta I don't like Feminism. Not at all. I support the ERA and don't understand why women prefer to go with this absurdity of pro-female vs male grouping. It means nothing and has no authority but does create division. The ERA has authority and no division now that Schafly is gone. Why not go with that?
As for the Feminist view that we should accept claims of rape, with no proof, and ruin a man's life I have nothing but derision. Can a man claim a female has harmed him without proof? In court? Not that I'm aware of. She put herself in Kobe's room, drunk, and giving him a massage. That's pretty damn close to wanting sex and he took it as such. Not rape. At worst it was a mistaken impression from which her "virtue" shall have to recover.

@rainmanjr I can see that you are a man who don't really understand this at all. All you can think of is that she is and was at fault, all she wanted is money. You are not worthy of talking to. I do hope you don't have a daughter.

"Don't speak ill of the dead." I get it. KB was a decent person, but he is not a better person than my son who shoots baskets in the driveway.

@Trumpeter Yes, really.
The pilot should have said "no", and very well may have, but since he'd piloted for Bryant fairly regularly, he was probably very easily bullied into doing it.
Money speaks volumes, and Kobe wasn't particularly shy about throwing his around. He also is widely reputed to being quite used to getting his way.
It wasn't a secret that flight conditions weren't good that morning.
He could have hired a limo or a bus and had everyone driven up there.
Could have even done it the night before.
He didn't want to deal with traffic. He was known for taking helicopter flights instead of having to deal with traffic.
So yes, he is most definitely responsible for this. No question.

Bryant and his wife had a pretty public pact about never taking helicopter flights together.

Oh hell yes, REALLY.

@Trumpeter The pilot SHOULD have, but he didn't, did he?

I have no "prejudice", and you're assuming that I do.
So you've made your statement about "assumptions or prejudice" completely irrelevant.

The helicopter they used didn't have the terrain warning detection system.
There was heavy fog.
They both knew they were going to be flying through mountainous terrain.
The trip had been made before.

They BOTH should have known better than to take such a risk with the
lives of others.
But they chose their hubris over regard for others.
Now they're ALL dead.

Hearing what other pilots woulda/coulda/shoulda is a waste of time.

@maturin1919 To an extent, you're correct. He didn't hold a gun to anyone's head and make them take that ride.
However, his influence did.
Which is precisely what will be argued when the families start taking his wife to court for their wrongful death lawsuits.

@Trumpeter Okay, so they're BOTH responsible.
But, ultimately, Kobe was the one with the checkbook.
Hope his wife has good lawyers.

@maturin1919 Fine. Have it your way. It's ALL the pilot's fault.
Can't wait to see what comes out in court. Unless, of course, Vanessa Bryant chooses to settle all the lawsuits.

Years ago in the Seattle area there was a guy who founded "Food Services of America." He was a jerk republican and lived on a ranch on a local island, Vashon. [en.wikipedia.org] He often had big fundraisers and hosted such scofflaws as Chaney. The FSA building was a large modern building in the part of the city I lived. It had the biggest American flag I have ever seen (think about how these people wrap themselves up in the flag while screwing the people). He had been convicted of donation fraud and given a hefty fine. He then wanted to be able to fly from his home to the mainland in his humongous helicopter but the locals wouldn't have it and he was denied. He got mad and left for a more 'amenable' state. A couple of years later I read that he, and his family, were all killed in a crash of that helicopter. Kind of hard to shed a tear.

I respect the man but not the BS.

@Atheist3 I don't even respect the man. Start spending time on good people.

Your first sentence explains the second.

It's not a need. However it is a concern when people lavish accolades on someone who is an athletic entertainer & want to idolize the memory. Why?

@Atheist3 Seems to be, or the post wouldn't have been created ... As for why people do anything, there's so many different motivations, I can't begin to speak to all that. I do know though, that often memories tend to clean up the bad parts, and hang on to the good ones. Which is why some of us step in the same pile repeatedly,only remembering the warmth and forgetting the stink. Ya know ?

@evergreen He was just a man!

"Great" men don't kill their children and other innocent people, simply
because they don't want to deal with traffic.
He was just another arrogant rich guy.
Now he's dead.

@KKGator No - he was the 3rd leading scorer in NBA history until LeBron passed him the night before he died. Kobe as an 18 year old, became the teams leader - even reprimanding Shaq for being lazy - years later Shaq admitted that Kobe was right.
There has never been an athlete that made more of his talent than Kobe - hes an international icon, because of his work ethic, his skill, and his leadership.

@gater I could not possibly give a shit about his athletic ability. Professional sports are pathetic in how they make people rich for playing a game.
His "leadership" abilities don't mean anything either.
They led those people to their deaths.

You rattled off those things like they actually mattered.

@KKGator I call bullshit - he led them to their deaths? How bout the pilot that fucked up?

They do matter to people of character. You seem to be clueless about what it tales to achieve what Kobe did - and just because you don't understand it, that doesnt mean it didnt matter.

@gater He was good at playing a GAME.

He also paid the pilot to do what he wanted him to do.

Neither make him a "good" guy.

@KKGator The pilot was highly qualified, but he fucked up - Kobe has no blame in this.

You clearly have no idea of, and no respect for, the work it takes to play at his level, but beyond that he was loved by millions around the world - he was special - the fact that you do not see that is your loss.

@gater I really don't care that he's dead. Not even a little bit. You're right about the fact that I had no respect for him or what he did in his sport.
People die every single day and no one sheds a tear.
This guy wasn't special. Professional sports don't make him, or anyone else who can play them, special. It's pathetic that professional athletes make more money than teachers or firefighters. The fact that so many don't see how fucked up their "priorities" are is what's really sad.
It's not my "loss". His existence meant nothing to me, and his death means even less. The one thing I do hope happens, is that the families of the people who died with him get rich when they sue his estate for wrongful death.

@KKGator Damn dude who pissed in your athletic dreams.?
My kid as a tike, loved Kobe. My kid wanted to be the next Kobe. That kept my kid off the streets and on the basketball court. Nobody says "Hey I want be like Jim in accounting." Gesh. Don't mean Jim ain't a great guy. He just ain't the guy.
Life's short..you only realize that when someone like Kobe is gone.

@Iamkratom Fuck Kobe. How's that?
He was a rapist and a murderer.
Athleticism means fuckall.
Athletic "role models" are bullshit.

@KKGator You're an asshole

@gater Perhaps, I am an asshole. However, I'm also not directly responsible for the deaths of eight innocent people, including my own child.
Kobe was definitely the bigger asshole, but he's dead now.
You can idolize him if you wish, that's your right.
I absolutely intend to continue to call him what he was.
Despite the protestations of those who though he was a "great guy".

@KKGator I agree this pathetic society Idolizes the wrong people .I do not give a shit about sport stars or celebrities

Boy, talk about a drop in salary!

Are you referring to me or KB?

@Atheist3 To himself is my guess.

Pot is legal in Canada.

This is a cultural attack! Where entertainers are more esteemed then mundane lives.