Here’s my conundrum about Easter and Passover.
First we are told that Bible is the inerrant word of god and that God is perfect. Next we are told that the law that god created is perfect and that God has always been perfect and never changes. Ok but here’s where the confusion starts.
If you are making the argument that God is perfect and never changes and the law is perfect then You have to take every word in Genesis as the absolute truth and it shouldn’t be altered.
This is where the conundrum of Jesus comes in. Doesn’t the mere story of Jesus dispute the Old Testament. If god was perfect then everything from the beginning should be perfect to and there shouldn’t be a need to change salvation and for a savior to come to saw us from the dreadful law. Isn’t the mere fact that Jesus came to abolish the law proof that the law is not perfect and therefore the god who created it is not perfect either because he had to have a do over with Jesus. Just some of my thoughts on this I wanted to share.
This pre-supposes that the bible is an accurate historical document, not a series of 'edited', anecdotal, after dinner stories, strung into a very loose narrative.
Your questioning of law, is relevant, but ignores the fact that for a believer the dichotomy of god, his mercy and the miseries that the mythic all father has inflicted on the human race are not barriers to a christians belief, they will always cite faith.
Logic has no place in an emotional argument. It's fun and an interesting conversation to have, but the chances of persuading a christian that the bible, the law of god or even the fact that they stole their religious myths from other religious mythos just will not fly. You'd have as much chance of keeping a chocolate fireguard intact, in front of a campfire.
Jesus claimed that he would not change "one jot or tittle" of the law. Modern believers claim that he abolished or "fulfilled" the law by his death and resurrection. Maybe they forgot that he was Jewish and not Baptist or Pentecostal. This is what now sets us free. His glorious sacrifice of himself. Let's try a new look. They wanted to explain why Jesus died.
As for Easter and Passover keep in mind that these are religious holidays and they change from year to year on any known calender. This is a solid fact. Now tell me when Jesus died. What year was it? We have no idea when Jesus was born or when he died but believers will fight you tooth and nail and claim you are lying.
In this time of COVID-19 it might be wise to put a little lamb's blood on your door post anyway.
Lol any known calendar? Passover doesn't change from year to year on the jewish calendar, which is not unknown. I can't speak for easter. It's when the big hats come out to cover a spot of ash, right?
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OMG why do so many people post this bullshit on an ATHEIST SITE???????? Stop it! Seriously, there are shitloads of religious based sites in the world...go troll there. I just want one goddamn place online where I do not have to read about fairy tales.
@Gwendolyn2018 Why do YOU even bother answering my reply if YOU don't agree with it? Go away.
Yes. The problem with perfection is there can be no aberration. Therefore there is no srperation, no ‘other ‘ as if there is an ‘other’ there must be a space where god isn’t , to be able to recognise separation.
So if a state of perfection exists it paradoxically can't exist as observation snd interaction is impossible. Therefore, for anything to exist it must be imperfect to allow recognition of separation.
Ergo, a perfect god cannot exist.
There’s the Facebook meme every year about this time that says, “Passover....so god could tell which children to kill.” Religion is chock full of conundrums, but believers gonna believe, that’s what they do. If their deity is perfect and all-knowing, always praying about stuff would just fuck up The Plan, but they keep praying anyway. Go figure...logic and reasoning have never been their strong suit.
well, No Son of Man may die for another's sins is OT, yeh. And i guess the Bible Itself will tell us that It is not the Word of Yah, so imo men make that up...and Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it? supposedly? The law is said to be "inadequate," but that does not mean "useless" i don't think; the speed limit in a school zone might be 20, but if little kids are pplaying near the curb and one trips and falls into the street, i might need to slow down to 5 or something, eh? So, after He destroys all dominion, authority, and power sounds to me like getting rid of the rulers, not necessarily the rules? Anarchy iow--not chaos, which we are taught to conflate that with--and...1Sam8
and "easter" is a roman god, not in the Bible anywhere i guess
The new testament was written by the Romans to suppress Jewish dissent because crucification and oppression was breeding more rebellion among Jews. The Romans tried to create a new religion to impose on Jews to control them. Jews rejected it but in one of tge most delicious ironys in history many Romans embraced it as corruption in Roman culture left many disillusioned with the old ways and looking for a new path.
Sorry but how does that relate to passover? Jews do not take the bible as the literal word of god (so it can't be the inerrant word of god either) and of course there is no jesus involved either. You make some good, if unoriginal, points relating to easter, but you said easter and passover. Why?
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My main point is that Christians make the point and I was one for 30 years that god is perfect. My point is that if god were perfect the. Why did he have to change his mode of salvation from the law to grace they Jesus. If he were perfect it should’ve been perfect from the beginning and shouldn’t have to change
@abyers1970 I got that but how does that have anything whatsoever to do with passover? Why did you mention passover?
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Per the Bible, this is the Christian Gods’ second chance. Remember he etch-a-sketch erased humanity with a global flood (never happened) and repopulated the earth with a extremely small genetic pool of 4 breading pairs (never happened) and then he sent Jesus (never existed) to save humanity through vicarious redemption.
Current Christian apologetics will attribute the need for Jesus to human free will. None of this really flies since this Highjacked Palestinian war god who was elevated to a creator god and was given omnipotence which would mean he is also all knowing. This would negate the Christian free will angle and push humans less than stellar behavior into “gods” lap as he planned and created it all.
This is nothing short of fucked up mental masturbation.
Mathew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mathew 7:12In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets
Several complicated points to make here that might take more explination that i can do here for brevity. Jesus character said he fullfilled the law of the old testiment and prophets like the movie "Stranger than Fiction" (2006) with actor Wil Ferrell. You would have to see this movie to understand how the author in the movie controlled the character that Will Ferrell played. Jesus character was controlled in the same manner by the old testiment as being the author that dictated the actions of Jesus character. You would have to research the 400+ prophesies that Jesus character is purported to of fulfilled.
If you notice thru out history "Laws of governments" has not been done away with. Religion and government are very much synonymous. There are those that form governments to control and enslave people to such things as capitalism wage slave labor. Those in control or at the higher end of the pyramid want good customer service low wage slave laborers to make them a lot of money and to do it as if they enjoy making only $8 per hour and saying "would you like fries with that?"
Hebrews 10:1 The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves.
What we see now and it is also hidden in the riddles and metaphors of the book of revelation such as the establishment of the mark of the beast-666 which began with requiring identification for taxation and government control. Controling capitalism and who can make money: "It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name." Revelations 13:16-17 This being done by the Masonic Lodge secret religion devil worshipers being lead by lucifer the devil most commonly known as Jesus the Christ. "United States of American", that is the LAWS, the constitution and the body of government officials enforcing those laws since the European invasion of the year 1492 and the Masonic Lodge secret religion racist devil worshipers freedom from England July 4th, 1776, to rape this land from the original indigenous inhabitants calling the such but not limited to Mexican, Indian and Native American.
...and didn't stop there. Later they raided the world far and wide including India and Africa (and still raiding) and now the thieves call themselves a sovereign nation.
How can it be the 100% accurate, inerrant word of God if they didn't even get the guy's name right.
Judaism records that a man, Rabbi Jeshua, existed, he was crucified, and his followers started a religion called "Nazerine Judaism" after his death. They agree that Christianity is an offshoot of that faith (but NJ still existed for another century or so after Christianity split off, so NJ did not "become" Christianity).
The don't agree about all that stuff about miracles and resurection, though. Jeshua was just another guy starting his own splinter religion, no mashiach or anything.
Anyhow, his name was Jeshua (or Jehoshua), which translates to modern day Joshua. Jesus was an invention of the Christian church. Jeshua was too "Jewish", so they changed it to something more palatable to Romans.
That would be an imperfection in the "perfect" Bible.. one of many...
Jesus (the myth, not the name) was an invention of the Romans.
Your entire spiel is, therefore, in error
I don't think they were ever able to decide whether Jesus came to fulfill the Law or supercede it. Sure enough, Paul said the Law was perfect. Perfect very often means complete. But that doesn't help either. We still have the two ideas of adhering to the Law because Jesus said not a jot or a tittle should be changed and Paul said lots of it doesn't apply anymore. The only way I can make sense of it is to say that the Law was perfect in its way of preparing people for Christ. It is, though, a relative kind of perfection. Even Paul said it was 'a shadow of things to come'.
Jesus didn't come to abolish the law --"Matthew 5:17 - Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." -- Jesus is a big fan of the law. Jesus loves the law as he stated in the next quote. -- I loveth the law. It exciteth me and maketh me hard.".
We know that God's not perfect by the simple fact that he made cockroaches and mosquitoes. What kind of deity thinks shit like that is necessary?
If Jebus existed at all, he was born a Jew, lived as a Jew, preached as a Jew (too Jews only), and died a Jew. He was never a Christian as Christianity didn't even exist.