Safety versus freedom. Make of that what you will. Any thoughts?
I agree that there is usually a trade off between safety and freedom, that's how civilization works. What I am not sure about just now is are we getting good value in the amount of actual safety we are gaining compared to the cost of the freedoms we are surrendering. Is there a better way to approach this pandemic than the route we are taking, can a middle ground be found that allows us to protect our livelihood as well as protect our health and the health of others who are vulnerable?
There are other health risks to be factored into the current response and deaths resulting from restricted access to health care because of quarantine may equal or surpass the mortality rates resulting directly from Covid-19. The poverty that will most likely result from a global economic collapse by the end of this year may likewise claim many more lives than the virus does.
Speculative but everything is speculative in a time of crisis, panic and poor data. Always remember that when we surrender our rights to the government temporarily the tend to disappear permanently.
The problem is immense. Look at what Sweden is doing. They have many deaths but not too much of lockdown. They have a different plan.
@Jolanta The Swedish plan has been to rely upon socially responsible social distancing, something the Swedes are inherently good at as a culture, and let the susceptible people remain sheltered for their own protection. They have had a more concentrated death rate so far but if their mortality starts dropping off dramatically in the coming months then they may have made the correct choice but it is too soon to say for sure. Their economy is doing better and the excess deaths from an overloaded hospital system doesn't seem to be any higher than normal. We have an interesting and potentially scary couple of months ahead of us at least.
In my opinion, anyone can have both Safety and Freedom under the 'normal' circumstances but in times like these at present I willing trade my 'freedoms' in for both my safety and that of everyone else as well.
Shouldn't we ALL during times like we are experiencing right here and now?
Group safety from oppression is a driving force of freedom. I can't make much sense of your statement.
I understand his statement better than yours.
@JustAskMe
Please explain it then?
@JustAskMe i do understand the choice of freedom relating to safety in the sense how much are we willing to give up to one side or the other. I wouldn't call it safety, more like slavery.
@HerbertNewsam Looks like you do understand the question. Sadly, your response is nonsensical. ... I'm shocked and dismayed to find this kind of ignorance here, on Agnostic.
@JustAskMe t
I am sorry that you do not understand that safety from oppression drives a desire for freedom. I think that is pretty basic. Have a nice evening.
@HerbertNewsam I'm sorry you haven't made any sense 3 times in a row. 3 strikes, you're out.
That's a nice strawman you've set up.
Before you go invoking the ghost of Thomas Paine again: Everyone trades off freedom for safety, every day of their lives.
Why do you stop at a stop sign? That's an inhibition on your freedom. Why only drive on one side of the road? But without those agreed-upon restrictions that we call "laws", the number of traffic deaths might go from 40,000 a year to 400,000. Or 4 million. Now, if you want to live in the world of The Road Warrior, that may sound okay to you, but I prefer not to.
There is no absolute freedom. We balance our freedom against everyone else's. Right now, everyone else's freedom from the risk of infection outweighs your freedom to walk around a store without a mask, breathe on people, go to the beach, or... whatever your gripe is.
I'm a libertarian, but right now, I support social distancing, because I'm not a damn fool.
It is NOT a choice of safety versus freedom. People in the U.S. do not have the "freedom" to commit manslaughter just because they want a haircut. Notice, it isn't the WORKERS begging to go back to work, it is the entitled white stupid people telling them they HAVE to go back to work.
I just hope so many stupids get sick and die that the election in November is a landslide against this ignorant fucktard.
Even though I am working hard to avoid using the colorful language you used here to say the same thing, you still could not have said it better. ... Covidiots have consumed nearly all of my energy and compassion and I have very little left.
People do not have the freedom to put others lives at risk. Yes, they have the right to assemble, the right to free speech. But when they get sick from exercising those rights, they are putting the providers that must care for them at risk. And for what purpose? So that you can get a hair cut? Go bowling? Get a tattoo? I've heard the phrase "My body, my choice" from these protesters. That's incorrect. Their saying needs to be corrected so that they say exactly what they mean; "They're choice, My body". This is why I have no problem taking away their rights to assemble. Stay home, so that I may be able to go home to my family!!
The dead are not going anywhere or doing anything, thats a pretty big reduction in freedom. Some people gain a little freedom, some people get to have none at all.
Everything in moderation. We have been way off balance in so many ways....this will balance us out. I do not feel free. I have not felt free in my entire life. I kept myself pretty safe though. Still alive. Survived some pretty horrific situations. I think most choose safety over freedom. I think of this topic often. Thanks.
I do think there's an opportunity here. Balance? Maybe eventually. We have to go through some stuff first. I hope that this is a wake up call for thinking people. I choose freedom over safety, if it's a choice of one or the other.
It's an inversely proportional relationship, isn't it?
I disagree. Safety can be gained by exercising the mental freedom to leave an abusive relationship.
@anglophone except that statiscally the days right after someone lwaves their abuser are more dangerous. Its a fine line
@Burner Agreed.