Just ranting? No.. I asked a question..

Details please? Either here or pm.. I'm very interested...

The topic is responsibility . not the the murder rate or crime.. Please elaborate..

@Cutiebeauty You said "Even Murder is excused" as if society has become less willing to hold people responsible when it comes to Murder. What about the lynchings that were done in the south from the end of the Civil war up to the 1950's when people Excused these murders and held nobody accountable for them. Have things not improved since then?

You said
"Crimes where guilt is obvious but lawyers lie to "represent" their clients?"
Crimes should never be obvious in a free society and everyone has the right to representation by a lawyer. When you abandon that you have Fascism. Is Fascism responsible behaviour?

Blatant lies about covid in the face of evidence and many deaths..
and
The president actually saying, "I take no responsibility."
I'm with you on these 2

@dermot235
You said "Even Murder is excused" as if society has become less willing to hold people responsible when it comes to Murder. What about the lynchings that were done in the south from the end of the Civil war up to the 1950's when people Excused these murders and held nobody accountable for them. Have things not improved since then?

I'm talking about today..

You said
"Crimes where guilt is obvious but lawyers lie to "represent" their clients?"
Crimes should never be obvious in a free society and everyone has the right to representation by a lawyer. When you abandon that you have Fascism. Is Fascism responsible behaviour?

.
Are you serious! With all the cameras that exist, we should say, what about what happened before this that and the other!

@Cutiebeauty
You can't have it both ways. You can say."
What happened? Why doesn't anyone taken responsibility for their actions ANYMORE?"
and then say "I'm talking about today.." You are saying theses things are worse now than they were before.

You say
"Are you serious! With all the cameras that exist, we should say, what about what happened before this that and the other!"
So are you in favour of abandoning the court system and the justice system in favour of "The Camera System". Convict people without a trail based on a Camera?

And I am serious. Everyone has the right to representation by a lawyer

@dermot235 you are totally missing the point.. The topic is responsibly not murder or lynchings or court trials or representation by a lawyer.. You're focusing on the examples not the main idea..

@Cutiebeauty It does appaer that you are using these example to make your point. So I was simply reacting to them

Having rights does not make you uncivil. If that were true then the most polite people in the world would not live in Scandinavia and Switzerland. If you ever go to theses countries you will see this. I have been there and their politeness is awe inspiring. Nothing like it anywhere else that I know of.

@dermot235 Yes, I agree with you. Scandinavian people are very good examples. But I was trying to contrast American vs. Chinese civility.

@mischl It does appear that you link the the rights you have will make you less civil. I don't see a link at all. Scandinavian citizens have all the rights afforded by a functioning democracy and it does not make them less civil.

The US has gone to hell in a hand basket, not Humanity. Most people in Canada and Europe are quite happy the way things are.

Nice rant. Should be pinned to the school room wall, everywhere. I think though, that another factor was the growth of media, especially the high capitalist advertising media, where every product is going to do everything for you, if you only buy, it, and it does not matter if the product is crap, because it is the hype that counts, and the winner is whoever can sell the worst product for the highest price.

Maybe the commercial world is catching up with the churches, who charge what they can, promise everything, and have no product at all.

@Fernapple OK You must have a very Bad memory. If you think that products sold to us 30 or 40 years ago were better than they are now, then I have no idea what planet you are living on. REALLY. Phones were better in the past. Cars were better in the Past. TV's were better in the past. Computers were better in the past (Oh wait there were no computers)

Yeah. the capitalist advertising media has really done a job on us getting us to buy products that get more and more inferior with the passing of time.

Nice Rant about how our young people are not as good as the last generation.
These are the young people in the UK that have to pay exorbitant fees and take on Debt to go to college. Something that older generations did not have to worry about. How entitled of them??

And Imagine the Cheek of these young entitled kids wanting to be able to afford to buy a home just because YOUR Generation Len could afford to buy a home.

And then how dare these young people reject racism and vote to stay in the European Union. While the older generation said Fuck you, I'm voting for Brexit because I don't care about how difficult the future will be for young people.

Anyway. Hope you enjoyed putting down this Generation. I guess they are used to it by now

@dermot235 No products sold thirty or forty years ago were crap too, that was well into the period I am talking about. The media advertising problem started in the nineteenth century.

Many physical products have improved vastly over the last forty years, no one who road a bus or tried to drive a car in the seventies would disagree with that. But cultural products are an entirely different matter.

@Fernapple "The media advertising problem started in the nineteenth century."
You mean before The Car, the computer, the Radio, the TV, The Microwave, The Aeroplane, the mobile phone on so on and so on. This was back in the day when products were good..Yes????? So good they did not exist

@dermot235 Why do you think that I am refering to technical products. Of course they have, improved. But while we are making lists what about leaded petrol, DDT, whale bone products, deforestation, facism, the rising tide of race hate, American gun culture, palm oil, trash culture, tabliod newspapers, internet disinformation, brexit, mass consumption of refined white sugar, and plastics polution. Oh and lets not forget, governments charging, "young people in the UK that have to pay exorbitant fees and take on Debt to go to college."

PS. I would never call any generation, I long ago took on board the wisdom of Leo Tolstoy. But I do think that this generation may be the first one cynical enough to be immune.

@Fernapple OK lets go down your list.
Leaded Petrol has been replaced by unleaded Petrol
DDT (If you are referring to insecticides) The really dangerous ones are now banned
Whale Bone Products. These were widespread 200 years ago before whaling was banned in most countries
Deforestation. How this is because of Advertising is beyond me
Fascism is not a product it's an ideology. And if you think everything was ok before Advertising then try Christianity in the 15 and 16th Centuries
the rising tide of race hate....Have no idea how advertising has anything to do with this, I guess you think there was no racism 200 years ago
American gun culture. In Europe we have advertising and no Gun Culture

governments charging, "young people in the UK that have to pay exorbitant fees and take on Debt to go to college."
What has this got to do with Advertising
Do you think it was easier to go to University in the 19th Century before Advertising

I think you are a little bit all over the place to be honest

@dermot235 Yes I know that Whale bone products, leaded petrol, and DDT are now bannned,, but you asked me for proof that these things date back to the nineteenth century. As to the others, I think that every one of them has everything to do with advertising, since many of them such as deforestation occur to provide mass consumer products which are only desired because of promotion. Fascism was an almost purely media promoted product. And of course I do not think that it was easier to go to university in the nineteenth century, but it was in the sixties/seventies etc. and the new state was promoted, as education to serve capitalist enterprise. And PS. I have also edited my last post to include, brexit, mass consumption of refined white sugar, and plastics polution.

@Fernapple So the solution is What. Ban Advertising. You think then everything will be alright if we do that. Do you really think advertising is the root of all evils in the world. You can't be that naive.

@Fernapple "Fascism was an almost purely media promoted product"
Now you are just being silly.
Do you really think there was no authoritarian dictators before Advertising and Media. Seriously. Come on

@dermot235 I was not taking about authoritarian dictators, only Fascism. Few governments did or have used the media as effectively as the facsist states, especially Germany, in the nineteen thirties. They made huge use of all the media, and especially of media experts, and capitalist media producers. While even the names themselves, were directly inspired by marketing ploys, being a vast act of rebranding, taking some old ideas like, empire, racism, and ultra -nationalism and giving them exciting new names, Facsism and National Socialism, to sell the products using the then cutting edge marketing ploys.

@dermot235 No I do not think that you can, or would benefit from, banning advertising. But I do think that it would be very useful to promote awareness of its use and methods, especially in education. And also to promote a degree of healthy cynisim. One of the worst wrong turns that education took, when it was reinvented at the time of the pay for it revolution, by T. Blair etc. and for some time before. Was to promote only education to serve the skills needed by the capital economy, at the expence of life skills, which in the developed world, where we can so easily supply all we want, though at horrible expense to the planet and uor physical and mental health, are much more needed.

Fortunately I think there are some good grass roots signs, and I will repeat. I would never call any generation, I long ago took on board the wisdom of Leo Tolstoy. But I do think that this generation may be the first one cynical enough to be immune, to some degree.

That's all backward...

@Cutiebeauty

@Cutiebeauty Agreed. But that's where we seem to be currently.