We should keep our eyes open for sure

@TBthree Eyes, minds, hearts .

Good point. But I was not taught this and was one foot out the door when I heard from a zealot who was in seminary. So I was surprised and kinda pissed

@TBthree you weren't taught a lot of shit. Were you taught about the nazi pope? Were you taught about the rat lines? Were you taught about the apocryphal and gnostic gospels? Were you taught about the IOR? Where you taught about the Holy See protection of pedophile priests even to the date? No my friend, there are these and many other things that you should be even more "pissed" about that you weren't taught. It is up to us to take our blindfolds off.

I and my sisters went to the Methodist church. On Easter my mom went a few times, always we were just deposited at the door for Sunday school and church. My Dad had been raised Catholic and as the youngest boy he was picked to become a priest. Clearly that did not work out. Don't know what all he knew about the faith BUT he knew the Bible six ways from Sunday. In fact he collected Bibles and was an atheist for most of his life. I left home when I was twenty and sadly never really had the many conversations I wish I could of had with him. He passed in 1994.
What I knew about being Catholic I picked up from friends who were and thought it was a weird way of believing but then by 12 years old I had quit going to church because the hypocrisy in the Methodist church was not fun.

@silverotter11 In early grade school I figured out the church (Methodist) was BS when they taught the Joseph and Mary star to locate the manger 3 wise men fable. A star would have to be a tiny fraction of the smallest star and located a few yards above the manger. This clearly does not reflect reality. I figured the entire church thing was nothing more then a Santa-clause story of nonsense designed to keep children in line and bilk them of their resources. I incorrectly also assumed no older person could possibly believe these childish stories that were not in agreement with reality. Many years later I lost a lot of optimism for continued social and technological advancement when I discovered many old people did not grow up and dump these BS stories.

@altschmerz Edward is great. While de-converting the first Catholic, I asked Edward a few questions and he quickly gave me answers so I could help the Catholic escape his indoctrination. Funny actually, after months of going back and forth with the Catholic, his last argument for believing in a god was . . . . Priests exists. Priests are ordained by god. Because there are priests, there must be a god. I gave him the link to Edward and the next day he thanked me (for several weeks after) for helping him escape religion. Nice young man. Before escaping Catholicism, He would routinely awake in the middle of the night with nightmares of being burned in hell because he did not please his god. His nightmares went away and he later told me his quality of life greatly increased on many levels.

@altschmerz Religion is the foundation of many mental illnesses. I honestly feel sorry for most religious people as they are not experiencing the honest beauty of real world nature. I also feel sorry for the rest of us as the religious also often make horrible faith based choices that adversely affect us all.

Your are good now and that's what really counts. So many people never reach your level of honesty and (what I consider) mental health free from accepting faith (belief without evidence) as facts (things that can be demonstrated as true). In the past I've made a few profoundly sad choices that would have significantly changed my current position in life. I wish I could go back and warn myself not to burn a decade trying to save another at my own expense but aside from occasionally typing this statement, I devote no resources to lamenting not making a better choice long ago.

Hope all goes well for you.

That's rough

@TBthree yeah, you would think being married 35 years and him NOT converting she could focus on I love you and will miss you until I see you again.

@TaylorWalston I agree. Religion is rough

You just need to be able say 7 Hail Mary's and 12 Our Fathers plus add a few extra tithes and they'll let you through just so long as you have your Credit cards with you as well....LOL.

@Larry-new depends on what book of fairy stories you go with.

@Triphid Some time back I believe you could buy your way out $$$

@oldFloyd Yep, the Catholic Churches actually sold 'Free Passes" ( can't quite remember what they actually called them though atm), to those who had the money to buy them.
That would have to be one of the Top Ten Scams of ALL time since you can be 100% certain that NONE of the 'Suckers' you sold the scam to would EVER come back and demand their money be returned.

Jesus was the biggest Jew ever!!!! Then he would have himself been complicit in getting himself killed. Judas, who was also a Jew Im pretty sure, gave up his location but Romans under order were the ones that grabbed him. The mob seemed to support it and Pontious Pilate went along with it.

All?

I had the similar sense of superiority but without the knowledge of no chance for them. As I learned more about some other Christian sects, I felt they were so cultish. Ironic

My mind just might be dirty (ok, it is, but that's how I get these thoughts) but a sticky river in a place full of virgins doesn't really sound like my paradise. And sometimes the river is made from milk. And as homophobic as Islam seems to be, did they ever promise female virgins along this sticky, milky river system? I'll let anybody else connect the dots to the gutter I call my thought process.

@PadraicM Your mind is in the Gutter. That's for sure. Really bad down deep in that disgusting Gutter....It's called being a man. lol

Ignorance can be bliss especially when it comes to Sinning because IF you don't know you are sinning then you must be innocent....LOL.

@Triphid It's called an indulgence, thanks Google. I couldn't remember either. Do I hear Led Zeppelin?

@oldFloyd No, no Led Zepplin actually, just my old School Teacher from my High School days.
He too was one very forthright, outspoken Atheist.

Yes. But were you raised Catholic?

So I can live it up and be depraved in this life and convert in the next? Hell, sign me up and I'll get my bucket list of sins ready to go.

Dont you want a planet?

. . . while waiting with the MN atheists to participate in the Gay Pride parade, I noticed a group of Gay Mormons -- I thought -- that's an oxymormon if I ever saw one !

I don't think that is Mormon doctrine.

@skado - Mormon doctrine can be difficult to pin down since it does evolve even in the face of a basic claim that it never does. Mormonism does teach of a multi-tiered heaven but the "highest" and most desirable tier reserved for faithful Mormons. To add to the confusion, Mormons believe in post life conversions supported by baptism by proxy. For example, Mormons believe that all American Presidents who died prior to say 1950's (I am unaware of the actual time frame) have "joined" the Mormon church and have been baptised as members postumously. The rituals performed for living members in Mormon temples are also done by proxy for those deceased before "joining". So, while Mormons may say that those who died before becoming a member of the Mormon church is technically true, it is also true that the nonmember cannot be admitted to the highest level of heaven without having the necessary rituals performed by a proxy.

@RussRAB Former Mormon here. Yes, I actually participated in "baptism for the dead"! I look back on that now, and cringe, at having done that at I think, 14 years of age. I remember asking, why we were doing it? I was given a b.s. answer. Truly, the one thing I regret in life! I actually regretted it as a member!

@TeresaWyckoff - The practice of baptism for the dead has been the subject of controversy (as I'm certain you are aware). In order to have names of deceased individuals for these rituals, the church began name mining any source they could find. When Jewish groups discivered that the mormons were using the names of Holocaust victims for these rituals, tney became ratber upset and demanded the Mormons not mess with these victims of Nazi mass murder. I understood that church officials had agreed to stop using the names of Holocaust victims but were later found to still be mining this source for names to perform their proxy baptism program. Other individuals who felt particularly put off by the Mormon church have also stated while alive that they wanted nothing done in Mormon temples on their behalf. Outwardly, the church says people are to honor these stated wishes but lessons and church talks on the subject can make certain members reconsider whether to honor these directions. After all, according to the belief system, honoring such a request assures that a loved one can naver get into the highest most desirable level of heaven.

@RussRAB I look back at that time now, and feel ashamed, that I participated. By the way, I had myself excommunicated years ago. Interesting side note, I got sick, the day I was supposed to talk with the bishop, he suggested it was God's way of keeping me from getting excuminicated!! Right!! Vomiting, did not stop me!

@TeresaWyckoff - I would encourage you to find a way to find forgiveness for yourself. I mean, the most you actually did was get wet in an oversized indoor bathtub. Nothing you did either helped or harmed anyone. You can give away the thought that you did anything wrong or that you did something to cause harm. It was all a fantasy, you have realized it and took appropriate action for your mental health and well being. Time to put it in the past the best you can, bit by bit if that's what you need.

Imo, Christianity thrives of the shame and guilt it can get someone caught up in. Some denominations are far worse than others - Mormonism ranks fairly high by my estimation. But it is false guilt and false shame to keep a believer hooked. It is something they can never allow you to be forgiven of - not really. It will alway hang over your head so long as you let it. A real turning point for me was a realization that came from a line from an old film "War Games". In the film a young high schooler hacks into the Nation Defense computers and starts a sequsnce of events that may fool the computer into starting a thermal nuclear war with Russia. To get the computer to abort its real response to the attack from the game, the young hacker gets the computer to play tic tac toe against itself. As game after game ends in a draw, the computer eventually learns and response with, "The only way to win is not to play the game." And so this is my advice to you: the only way to win with the Mormon church is not to play their game.

I wish you the very best life. Peace

@RussRAB I've already done that.

@TeresaWyckoff - I hope I haven't offended in suggesting it. That certainly was not my intent.

@RussRAB Not at all, this post just reminded me of those times in my life.