This from my fundie sister ....
".... the mass murder of many people were justified "science". And experimenting on people as well. Communism is a good example of the " no God" theology. The problem with this thinking is that the people have control of the scientific community become their own God's. They make their own definitions of what is right and wrong. What's allowed and what's not. It's always changing. Rights to free speech and individual freedoms are dictated their theology. There is no foundation for Good and evil. What defines good and evil.
The New Testament and Christ's example are the highest demonstration of what is good and what is evil. The Dogmatic Pharisees where called out by Christ and told the devil was their father because they choose to suppress the people and denied God's , whom the scriptures taught about. Love, forgiveness, faith, hope, Grace, compassion, caring for others is Good. To please God by doing good is good.
I need not describe evil. God and his creation his Good. Hate, selfishness, etc. is evil. Denying God is to be against him and all who believe in him. This is a sad business. "
I won't bore you with my response and the ensuing verbal battle, but I am looking for more effective responses as I'm certain we will come to this conversation again.
Thoughts?
8
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31 comments (26 - 31)
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button."WTF?". How's that for a response?
Encourage her to ramble on. She's digging a deep hole
twill
Level 7
Aug 28, 2020
1
Ha!! The first time (long ago) that was my "response" <mouth agape in abject horror>. I now think she thought my speechlessness meant her thoughts were "news" to me.... in a way they were. I never thought she was that shallow and stupid.
I am good. I take no pleasure in causing others pain. Good people recognize those who are not good. Donald trump is not good. The people who support him who know he is not good are also not good. The people who support him but don't really understand what he truly is are also good, they are just misguided, probably due to the influences of their friends, family, church, and the crap on fox news. I work in an office full of xtian republicans, and they are basically good people who support trump for the above-stated reasons. They were grouped in an adjacent office this week without social distancing or wearing a mask and talking about their AR15's and AK47's. I just had to chime in. I was trained in the US Army to use an M16 and there is NO reason John Q. Public needs such a weapon. One dude said "It's crazy out there and I need this weapon to fend off the demonstrators when they attack." Oh really? A 9mm will do the job. Assuming anyone ever really does attack your home. Trump is a fear monger playing on the fears of these country bumpkins who just don't know any better and are too narrow minded to look beyond their own city limits.
Stilltrying1964
Level 7
Aug 29, 2020
0
Well, that is one way I am not a traditional "liberal". I am convinced, the guns are not evil, it is the bastages holding then that is the problem.
So I look at it this way; if guns are outlawed, only conservative religinuts will have guns.
@Normanbites guns don't need to be outlawed! Just assault weapons that only belong on battle fields. Interesting that the guy I work with said the same thing as you. That's bullshit. I promise you if the bad guy has an ak or an ar and I have a 9, he's dead. Not me. I don't miss. That argument is bullshit. Wait till your kids school gets shot up by a kid that took his mothers legally obtained ar15 and you'll change your tune.
@Stilltrying1964 Most murders with guns are done with pistols, not assault rifles, even counting the mass murders. If your objective is to save lives, you are going after the wrong firearms.
Don't take my word for it. Look up the numbers!! DE DEBIL is in DE DETAILS, dude!!
@Normanbites not the point! Most of the time when a nut job shoots up a school, they have an assault rifle! If you ain't on a battlefield, you don't need a damn weapon of war! And I just Googled it and it confirmed I am correct!
@Stilltrying1964 If that is your concern, fine!! Just be aware that banning hammers is foolish if you are trying to limit carpenters. Murderers will simply grab a pistol to kill the same people. I don't see how making that tool unavailable will change anything.
@Normanbites it's actually quite simple! You can't kill as many people if you don't have as many bullets! You can't kill as many people if you don't have the ability to deliver bullets as rapidly as you can with smaller weapons! You can't kill as many people if you can't deliver those bullets as accurately as you can with an assault weapon! Get it?
@Stilltrying1964 No, I don't "get it". You said you have a 9mm .... so you only have one magazine? You don't know you can get an expanded capacity clip? You aren't aware a pistol is easier to wield at close range, easier to conceal? It sounds to me that you are fairly ignorant about weaponry.
Again, it is all in the numbers!! FAR MORE deaths are due to pistols than rifles .. FAR MORE!!. Even counting the mass murders.
@Normanbites I'm done talking to you dude. I'm not ignorant of anything. I don't have a nine. I don't own a gun coz I don't need one. I was trained in the US Army to kill. If you had a 15 or an a.k. I'd take you out coz I don't miss. Ever. Which is why I don't own a gun coz I have anger mgmt issues and if you pissed me off and I had a gun, I wouldn't give a goddamn in hell what you had, I would empty your fucking* skull. This conversation is over Homeslice!
@Stilltrying1964 Yup, I agree. You are indeed more of a threat than a gun. I'm glad you don't own one.
@Normanbites I don't give a fuck that you agree. It's none of your goddamn business actually. I will get a gun when I feel like it coz its my 2nd ammdmt right to do so. I am man enough to handle myself without a gun, and smart enough not to own one when my life until very recently was a total bag of shit. I'm also smart enough to get therapy for the things that cause my anger issues. And by the way, what part of I'm done with this conversation did you not understand? That's a rhetorical question, you don't need to continue responding.
She is a fuckwit, don't bother arguing with her, you cannot reason with one so brainwashed that her actual brain has dissolved and leaked out of her ears.
LenHazell53
Level 9
Aug 28, 2020
0
" the mass murder of many people were justified "science". And experimenting on people as well" There's a deep philosophical question there. If doing evil in the name of good is OK, is there any limit to how much of such "good" can be done?
resurrectisis
Level 3
Aug 28, 2020
0
i want to see the rest of the exchange, Yes, I do get some strange pleasure from this.
I think that, if you decide to engage with her further, you should be able to throw her rules back in her face. Granted, for an atheist, quoting the bible doesn't mean much more than quoting Spiderman comics, but it could land some tough questions for her. Maybe even get to to start asking about her religion more than what they get on Sunday in a nice pretty bow. In my experience, you will never convince them with "non-godly" stuff, only with getting them to start questioning their source material. And even then, that rarely works as they will seek to justify things like why we are allowed to own slaves, and why women are subservient to men. Or even why dragons will rise up on the earth and how we will know when 1/3 of the sea is boiled away.
PadraicM
Level 7
Aug 28, 2020
0
I wish I could, and I wish it were as simple as questioning her own interpretation of the babble.
As it is I feel guilty enough posting what I did of a private conversation she was having with her brother without her permission.
Also, I don't think the rationale is necessarily her own. Sad to say, I think she is one of those for which thinking is "too hard" so she let's her preacher do that for her. Any question I bring up, if she doesn't have a ready answer, which is surprisingly often, she will ask for time to "pray on it" ... which I think is code for "Let me ask my preacher what I think.". And you know those guys have a vested interest in keeping the lie "believable".
Until she starts to develop her own thought process, I'm afraid any prolonged discussion will be hopeless as others have noted.
However, on occasion, I have found a one liner that at least causes her to go to the preachers. It is very gratifying when they can not develop even a partly intelligible answer.
I think the last one was, "How can the tale of Jonah be remotely true if there is no living animal or animal from the fossil record that could swallow a man whole and regurgitate him alive three days later?" ...... the best answers so far are;
- Ahhhhhhhh.......
- It's allegory!
- God made a special fish!
I would ask if she accepts the whole Bible and not just the new and is the god of the old testament the same god as he of the new. Christians have to cherry-pick by throwing out what happened in the old testament because that shithead god is one amoral SOB. As Dawkins said he is: "jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” That is basically saying that if a person today that did what he did he would be guilty of all that. Was it ever right to own another person? Was it ever right to murder entire groups of people because they believed differently? I don't know about you but I wouldn't respect, much less worship, any entity that was that evil even if he did exist.
gearl
Level 8
Aug 28, 2020
0
Oh, I personally have crossed that line long ago. But she seems totally unphased by these contradictions. Some of the "rationale" I've extracted from her; "God can change his mind if he wants to." ..... when I question then his omniscience and his inability to see or predict the outcome ... I get vacant stares. She will occasionally invoke "free will", when I point out that makes omniscience and omnipotence impossible .... back to the vacant stare ... <shrug> I haven't thought of a good way to explain that one to her.
@Normanbites Understood. I have "friends" like that. In one's case he is too lazy or too afraid to even discuss it. He will bring something up and then retreat into his shell like a tortoise.
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