@SeaGreenEyez That is something that I was thinking on my drive home tonight, before I read the article. It is like it was written for me.

I admire the fact that you still have hope. I fear that it does not matter what the majority wants anymore. The power in the US is in the hands of the few. I hope that I am wrong and you are correct.

Since the Monroe Doctrine. but that doctrine was limited to this hemisphere.

@yvilletom 100 million eligible people did not vote in 2020. Activate just a fraction of them...

@SeaGreenEyez With the exception of Hong Kong, I've been to all the countries listed in the first reference. Of all those I prefer here.

The second reference has merit, however the liberty here, verses elsewhere I appreciate. I think you find it irksome that we pretty much do what we want to do (it is a problem from time to time) however I like the energy that creates.

@SeaGreenEyez As I said in my reply above you dislike the Liberty we have. I admit that Liberty allows many disagreeable instances, but I prefer that to uber order.

@Alienbeing @SeaGreenEyez, I commend you both on a spirited and well-founded debate. You both make excellent points. You're both right. This country is complicated. It's mult-faceted. It's self-contradictory. It's fascinating, uplifting, downtrodding, inspiring, and disgusting all at once. Welcome to America!

@Alienbeing you probably aren't as free as you think you are. According to the Freedom Index, there are 14 countries who have more freedom than the United States.
[worldpopulationreview.com]

For not paying attention, you are sentenced to awareness.

@JonnaBononna YES, thank you, Jonna. I have a list of a dozen freedoms that I DON'T have in the U.S. Every time I spend a month in Europe running around on trains and then come back home, I am acutely reminded of the freedoms I don't have. This country is so goddamn busy making laws about all the things we can't do, and nobody puts any time or energy into getting rid of old laws.

@JonnaBononna I know I am as free as I ever wanted to be. Nothing I ever wanted to do was prohibited.

@Alienbeing you and most other white males. Ask people of color if they feel the same.

@Alienbeing or poor people... the US is so hung up on cars it makes it nearly impossible to live without one, yet a whole lot of people can't afford to own one, not legally anyway with the cost of insurance. I'm glad your are in a place where you are comfortable. Many are not, through no fault of their own.

@JonnaBononna The "people of color" statement is wrong on many levels. Foremost among the reasons is it is untrue is there are multitudes of laws making any kind of racism illegal. Of course people break laws, but that does ot mean, or infer anything against the Government. Murder is illegal, but American has murders.

Your "poor" comment has nothing to do with freedoms. Get a real argument.

@Alienbeing Um, slavery is technically illegal by law in this country but that does not stop courts/judges from sentencing certain groups to greater prison terms in our for profit prison system to1)space is money and the cells must be kept full and 2) local governments can lease out prisoners for very low wages for labor to repair roads, do maintenance, etc.
It's complicated I know and the technical/legal jargon that many hide behind to justify what is really happening is sad. Just like all black Americans knew what happened to George Floyd was pervasive but until cell phones became the norm and there was visual documentation it was always a black persons word against a white mans.

@Alienbeing of course my comment regarding poor people has to do with freedom. This who are poor may be allowed to do certain things, but they aren't able to do many of them because our government does not ensure that people are paid a wage they can thrive off of. For fucks sake, minimum wage has been $7.25 an hour since 2009! They aren't even guaranteed healthcare. They are existing, they aren't living.

@JonnaBononna Freedom in no way is meant to guarantee someone can do something. Freedom guarantees the right to do something, not the ability to do something.

"

@silverotter11 Slavery is not "technically" illegal, it is absolutely illegal. Laws regarding prisoners are passed by elected officials. If you or a group does not agree with any portion of any law you are free to work to change that law.

Freedom is not free, and democracy only works if people participate.

The Geo Floyd murder has nothing to do with freedom, it is another example of police misconduct. The offenders were prosecuted and convicted.

@Alienbeing I know. You've got yours so fuck everyone else.

@JonnaBononna There of course is a basis for all of this - I've been flowing Heather Cox Richardson, she is a professor and her specialty is the history of the Re[ublican Party. Regardless of what some believe there is a bias built into our system. There is the ideal, but if you are not white christian male the deck is stacked against you.

@JonnaBononna No, your conclusion is totally wrong, as is your feeble attempt to conflate issues.

Read the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution. You REALLY need to be educated.

@Alienbeing the Declaration of Independence promises life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I'm educated, that's why I care about other people and not just myself. But I'd rather be uneducated and care about others than be a selfish ass like you.

@JonnaBononna The key word is PURSUIT. That word does not even infer guarantee of success.

Last, since you don't know me at all, any conclusion you reach regarding "selfish ass" in nothing more than a reflection of your highly opinionated mind.

@SeaGreenEyez I had an opportunity to move to Europe 30 years ago, and I didn't take it. Damn, damn, damn. And I even speak almost fluent German.

@SeaGreenEyez The real truth is that I tried. But I couldn't find a job to save my ass. I actually GOT a job offer from IBM Germany, but then they withdrew the offer because they discovered German law wouldn't allow it. I did, however, get a job as a machinist (which was allowed under German law), but I stayed only about 18 months.

How the "cuckoo fringe" was able to gain such masterful control?

Facebook.

@Flyingsaucesir I'm skeptical of the claim facebook enabled this, solely on the basis it would require them to READ. I would more suspect a social media that offers a plethora of talking heads seeped in dogma.

@Flyingsaucesir fox and the right wing talk radio on AM channels. Rural eastern WA State is horrible!!

@Normanbites @silverotter11 It's all of the above: am talk radio, Fox, Facebook,...none of these really require reading skills.

@SeaGreenEyez Then I moved to Florida...right down here in the belly of the beast.

@SeaGreenEyez Yes, I've joined up with a plucky bunch of democrats who want to save the sunshine state from the evil grasp of hard-right fanatics. And boy oh boy do we gottem. We have this really evil monster called DeSantis, who is a Trump wannabe and who has his eyes on the White House.

@SeaGreenEyez
You said "It's always been shithole. Many of us, maybe most of us, didn't notice until we did."
I just re-read an article about the settlement in Jamestown. That was the beginning of the US and slavery in the US AND it was a real shit-hole. It had a 70-80% mortality rate (the plaque was < 50%). They were greedy and preferred to grow tobacco instead of food. Starvation got to the point were they resorted to cannibalism. Times really have not changed.

@SeaGreenEyez I certainly hope I'm a better "man" than you, heh heh. Yes, I'll be damned if I'm gonna let those crazy ass right-wing fanatics have this beautiful state to themselves. So, I write and post on 5 different sites at least daily. Next Saturday, I plan to show up at the march for women's rights here in Fort Myers. So far, NONE of the women I know here locally has said she will attend. What the fuck is wrong with wimmen?? (Please pardon my rant. I'm frustrated.)

@SeaGreenEyez Sometimes I think women are their own worst enemies. (Am I repeating myself?)

@SeaGreenEyez ?? Sorry, I don't quite understand that...

@SeaGreenEyez You're "sparing" some man by denying him your company and companionship? Methinks you might be a very worthy friend and companion. And punishing yourself to boot.