@Matias It's not nonsense in that to imagine someone who is basically a good person doing something that in any other context would be shockingly evil to do for a morally normal person...really takes something exactly like religion, or like religion in all the ways that make religion religious.

And with regard to Pascal, it is certainly possible to be very religious in your religion and still see the problem with religious belief in all other religions. In fact, pointing out how everyone else's religion is evil and will send them all to hell is often a central pastime of holding a religious belief.

@Matias Why is the first quote 'nonsense'? Pascal does not say religion is evil, nor do I believe that is the point he was making, only that it's a very, very effective tool for convincing people to gleefully commit evil, when they otherwise might not.

"I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I have seen what it can do to skyscrapers." - Bill Maher (I believe)

@DesertInfidel , funny how he does not answer when you are correct

Here is a song about it

@273kelvin Good song but sad.

@RavenCT Sad but anthemic.

@Matias I found this jumbled list in my head in a file labeled "Observations on Religion" It's a very comprehensive folder, as those are just the headers on the sub folders,. And I am now filing your comment under several cross-referenced folders, such as "Delusional", "Charlatan", "Intellectually Dishonest", "Denial", "Snark", "Bullshit", "Ad Hominem", and "Blind" among others. I don't need to know your friends and neighbors to know that they have been negatively effected by religion, as every person on Earth has been negatively effected by religion, so that includes your friends and neighbors. I'm sure they, if they are predisposed to Faith like yourself, will either deny that they have been, like yourself, or won't even realize it unless it's directly pointed out to them or demonstrated directly, and even then, they will probably deny it to the presenter and themselves, like you did here. Also, you don't need to be clairvoyant to say that something as pervasive and toxic as religion has had a negative effect on everyone who comes into contact with it. Much in the same way that I can boldly claim that everyone who has ever breathed oxygen has benefited from it, or that anyone who has come into unprotected contact with high levels of radiation has been negatively effected by it to at least some degree. I find your comments and posts to be completely useless, and just nonsense, as you are preaching (and yes, that's exactly what you're doing here, proselytizing) that we non-believers should keep an open mind about religion, which is insulting as fuck, because it pushes the assumption that we are all mistaken in our reasoning and fall somewhere on the stupid side of the critical thinking spectrum. Especially ironic since you claim to be an atheist.

@Kafirah That response was fire.

@Kafirah What religions are you referring to here? Certainly not indigenous systems or Buddhist or Jain or Sikh or Quaker or Rastafarian, or Raelian or Satanist...

Perhaps you just mean the Abrahamic.

@Geoffrey51 I believe that all religions are bad. All of them. For each and every one of them encourages one to believe in some form of supernatural bullshit. However, that being said, I do not believe all religions are EQUALLY bad. That is to say that some are far worse than others, such as the Big Three Abrahamic ones, and they certainly are at the top of the list of evil insane megalomaniacal ones. The rest are rather benign by comparison. However, they preach the existence of the supernatural, and therefore are not without blame. Let's look at your examples...

Buddhism teaches Karma as a supernatural force that balances the scales through reincarnation. This allows for the faults and character flaws of any given individual to be overlooked and blamed on the actions of one's past lives. And it discourages individuals from taking personal responsibility for their own actions. And simultaneously it implies that an individual's soul is irrevocably and nigh-inescapably tainted. This is just more original sin in a pretty cosmic wrapper.

Jainism teaches a similar form of supernatural nonsense as karma and reincarnation, but allows for an individual to break free of the karmic cycle, which is an improvement. However, they also teach unhealthy week (8 days actually) fasts and a vegan diet that is inconsistent and not really vegan (for example: no eggs, but milk is fine. And no eating root vegetable or tubers because they grow in the ground... but hypocritically, they are fine on certain days because reasons). But frankly, teaching there is an afterlife is simply enough to be considered bullshit.

Sikhism again teaches karma and reincarnation.and that there is a god that judges you by your sins after you die. Complete nonsense. It is also the lovechild of Hinduism and Islam and was raised by what I consider bad parents.As a result, most Sikh live as though it is 1950 and women should be in the kitchen or ironing clothes at home, rather than combining oligonucleotides or running multinational conglomerates. Misogyny is to be looked down upon, no mater what gender you are.

I am actually unfamiliar with the Quakers for the most part. But if they teach that there is a god and an afterlife, which I consider inherently dishonest, if only intellectually, they aren't for me.

Rastafarians teach that Emperor Haile Selassie.was a living god. and that when a Rastafarian dies, they go to Heaven in Africa. Nonsense, but you'll believe anything if you're high enough. Honestly, Rastafarianism is just diet Christianity of the Protestant variety with weed with acceptable idolatry.

Raelians are fucking dumb. Each and every one of them believes that aliens are here and part of our global culture. They worship a guy who named himself Rael and he is their god and their pope. And Raelians are a cult, not a religion, and resemble Scientology in their absurdity.

Satanist for the most part don't bother me a bit, as they are not an actual religion, but a parody of religion. Most are atheists. However, I do have a problem with LaVey Satanism, as it teaches a belief in magic, and by extension magical thinking. If it teaches that the supernatural is real, it's bullshit. And it's robbing its believers of the ability to face reality through critical thinking and logic. The Church of Satan, is inferior to Geaves Satanism as practiced by The Satanic Temple.

But, as I said before, not all religions are equally bad, but they are all bad in one way or another.

@Kafirah Thank you. I am grateful that you have researched and made a deliberated and knowledgeable reply . It is a breath of fresh air compared to the many monosyllabic and unconsidered responses that area frequently in evidence.

@Geoffrey51 My pleasure. I am happy whenever I get an opportunity to both educate others and put all those wasted semesters of theology courses to good use... lol

@Matias

Looking at your other comments you seem to firmly side with the post.

Okay.

Why the question mark on mine? There is impirical data supporting my statement.

Are you confused? Is your tactical manneuv er to act like it doesn't make sense? Or maybe your dense.

Which is it?

@Heathenman That's exactly his tactic, judging by his ad hominem attack comment on what I wrote...

@Matias that would help anything, how? Everyone's line in the sand is different. We would become me.

@Matias But people don't know if they have the vulnerability until they start drinking. Therefore, no one should put themselves at risk. (It's like taking poison that only kills some people. Arguing that everyone should take it because some people won't die is not a good argument. I'm open to others, though.)

@Matias No. Only from things like religion and alcohol that have a long track record of destroying many people's lives.

I'm certain someone, somewhere smoked meth once and never smoked it again. Should everyone smoke meth because maybe they will possibly be ok like that person? lol

It's just a bad argument. I'm sure you can make a better one?

@greyeyed123 , that is a lot of words for No He Can't

@Matias Matias, and I am being quite INTENTIONAL crude here btw, PERHAPS, imho, you may wish to consider using some type of hair cream/oil in future so as it may assist the insertion of you cranium into your anal orifice with a little more ease and a lot less effort on your part.

@Matias I only speak as I see things.

@Matias I was brought up in a family where we were encouraged to be individuals and to think for ourselves...my father was self educated, but the wisest and most knowledgeable of men. I pride myself in thinking rationally and usually against the mainstream...a badge of honour if you like! Anyway I hate bullying and some of the responses below verged on personal animosity....not the result of rational thought but a knee-jerk reaction.

@Matias I didn't say it was a fact. I SAID it's my opinion.

@Matias , IMO you are rude and like to disregard people who disagree with you. Why post a question if you only want answers from people who agree with you.

@freeofgod Because he is his own special little echo chamber. "Simplistic and not backed by evidence" equates to "I've been living in a hole, don't watch the news or read the paper, and I have no idea what a google is! Now, get off my lawn!"

Fundamentalism isn't the only part of religion that's harmful. Take the methodist church, it's not fundamentalist yet they don't allow gay marriage, they preach about how transgender are bad. Or take the catholic church, do I have to list all their problems? Religion is bad by it's very nature. I say this as someone who has experienced many christian sects and none of them apart from liberal Friends have anything good about them.

Religion helps to placate the poor.
I think that is an evil thing to keep around.

How about we help raise up the poor and get rid of religion? So much money to help social programs.

@RavenCT People will be people. Only through brutal, violent tyranny has religion been eliminated in the past, and it always comes back.

Who are the “we” that are going to enforce your edicts? Certainly not a majority.

@WilliamFleming There is no edict here.

I think the world would be better off without religions. (That is my opinion).

I don't see that happening anytime soon. However it doesn't mean I sit quietly when someone says they're going to sacrifice another child to the nonsense.

I will tell people about the risks they may be taking.

They need to know.

As for convincing the masses there is no Sky-Daddy? We'll get there - eventually. I don't see a mass-de conversion in anyone's future.

It might be another century before we see religions fail. It might take longer.

I do hope it comes.

I'd rather see people form Humanist pursuits. That wouldn't be a waste of a Sunday. Actually helping others.

@RavenCT “As for convincing the masses there is no Sky-Daddy? We'll get there - eventually. I don't see a mass-de conversion in anyone's future.”

If I thought that was all there was to religion I would probably agree. You have a skewed perception IMO.

@WilliamFleming I see religion as harmful.
It is adults believing full on in the make believe.

Do you see a way to justify that? I do not.

It's unhealthy. Mentally unhealthy.

Coping with reality is a good thing.

I'd love to see where I'm "Skewed" in that?

@RavenCT There’s more to religion sir than just adults believing in make-believe. I agree that traditional Christianity promotes belief in some things that are not believable, but there are many religions that require no belief at all. There’s the UU for example. The Friends require no belief. New Thought Churches are not about belief. Besides that there is Buddhism which has no God concept.

Most of those do speak of God—they have a sophisticated God concept that bears no relation to your “Sky-Daddy” quip. Your use of that label shows that you yourself are not dealing with reality. When it comes to talk of God, none of us know what we are talking about. The word is a symbol for a great unknown—for ultimate reality beyond the senses.

We are free to think whatever we want about ultimate reality. Why do you insist that you hold the only correct opinion?

@WilliamFleming You just misgendered me. I'm sure the cat is confusing - but my profile does state Female. Please remember in future.

I was born atheist - I was given a religion after birth - which gratefully I have lost the need for. I wish others would too.

Having worked in Mental Health I've see the harm religion does - it is a belief in the imaginary. There is zero proof. To put that much energy into something that is 100 percent unprovable. That's not healthy. Especially when it makes promises it can't fulfill for you.

As for the motives of the people who push it on the masses? That's where it gets into some evil motives.

"Here - believe in this make believe. And do what we say!". That always ends well. (No no it doesn't.).

There are good people in religions.
I do not believe there are good religions.

And I have a sister who is a Unitarian Universalist - they are far more Humanist than some - however they dabble in every religion as needed. So that's problematic.

You know people can just get together and do good without the religious aspect. I've done some of that in my lifetime.
Don't worry about losing religion so much.

People will still want to do good. I promise.

@RavenCT Sorry ma’am.

It’s in our blood to do good. That has no direct relation to the religious impulse of mankind, which is founded on deep awareness, awe and reverence for the overwhelming and profound mystery of our existence as conscious beings.

Please don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

Same here.

I never learned to like the taste of alcohol either, and given that my father and two brothers were alcoholics, it was probably good that I never started down that road.