Agnostic.com

20 7

No gods/no kings?

How what is the link between religion and government? Have you found that in rejecting religion that you realize that there is no need to bow to anyone else, too?

MONSOdO 3 Oct 28
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

20 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

I think that the way people set up governments reflects many of their religious beliefs. However, I do see a "need" to respect government. God may not strike me with lightening if I refuse to obey but the government is sure to make things uncomfortable for me. Living in a community requires some degree of respect for the people around you.

0

My 2 cents: Religion and government grew out of the ancient, undocumented tribes of man. The shaman (or whatever) would keep the laws, stories, and mores of the tribe. The leader (strongest) and shaman eventually shared power as it benefited both. This grew into what we have today.

0

The Kings have always used religion to keep the people "in line."

0

The problem is that a major share of the population are eager for a God/King and will gladly create their own delusions to support that goal. Look at the dynamic of Trump. He would love to be a king for life and probably a God too; he craves adulation and will do anything to get it. And, his fans are genuine fanatics who will kill to keep him on his throne. Truly, in a society of fools (which the US surely qualifies), the dangers of lunatics gaining power remains poorly addressed. Look what a great job the Electoral College did with its singular mandate to keep a known psychotic from ascending.

0

Well, it certainly tosses out "The Divine Right of Kings," doesn't it? And yet our Brit friends still largely embrace a silly "royal" family initiated entirely under this concept. This family ascended the throne in the usual way - by spilling the blood of conquered enemies. So divine. 😀

0

Kind of

0

If you mean no gods, no kings, and there should only be the alliances of the wise to settle all woes of controversy than. I 100% believe this is the way it should have always been.

1

Since it is said that Kings (and Queens) are anointed by God thus came into being the ideology of "Ruling over the People of a Land/Country is the Divine Right of Kings," then, logically, since NO Divinity/God or Supremely Omnipotent Entity, etc, has ever been proven 100% to have existed that ideology MUST be as much a FALLACY as is the Ideology that the self-same Divinity/God/Supremely Omnipotent Entity is.
Ergo, I bow to no Man nor Woman since NONE should be expected to bow to me either nor shall I ever genuflect before any person claiming to be a Representative of this totally Unproven Supremely Omnipotent Entity either.

0

Not necessarily.

1

In the past people believed in "The Divine Right of Kings" meaning that either the god(s) appointed them or favored them. Democratization has pretty much done away with that... However there are a few old outs that believe that you shoudl not question your leaders, elected or not. I think this mostly comes form religious indoctrination and beign taught not to question god, the church or church leaders.

So, in giving up religion society heads more towards rationality and thinking.

0

No, we humans are social creatures who live by rules and structure. Some may appear mad at times, but they are they. Class exists, as does status.
Freedom is subjective, we live within the flux of what we think that freedom is.

0

Imagine

0

I believe that laws, and by default governments are a necessary evil. While I may despise their corruption and hypocrisy, I'm not foolish enough to think that a civilized society could exist without them.

Gods only exist because we, in general, cannot accept our own mortality.

JimG Level 8 Oct 28, 2019

There is no proof that "we" have reached civilized yet. Only proof of working towards the goal.

0

A person almost has to defer to government authority to avoid punishment.

A religious person might feel a sense of profound gratitude and reverence and feel no fear at all. On the other hand many church leaders utilize fear and guilt to control people, and that amounts to governance.

Hopefully we can avoid such churches. We can not avoid the government. Neither can we avoid true awe and reverence—those spring up spontaneously through deep awareness. They are subjective and don’t depend on a group.

If you are a member of any group, some of your individual freedom will be sacrificed by necessity.

2

Religion has a common link in that it is used by government to get you to be a good boy and pay your taxes. Charles Koch is aware of this and that is why he bought the current GOP and the push is for only the little guy to pay taxes. Charlie wants to keep his.

2

Royalty--Kings, emperors, and pharoahs, etc.-- always claim they were chosen by God to lead their subjects, so I agree with your equation. No gods, no kings. One of the scarier things about Trump supporters is that some of them claim that he (of all people!) was chosen by God to be President of the United States. Bible stories portray God doing some stupendously bizarre, stupid things. Still, I don't think even the God of the Bible would do anything that stupid.

2

Governments are for structure, and to provide services, and some level of protection. I really don't know people who bow to the government in this country. There certainly have been and are cultures where they have had to and do, but this ain't one of them.

Not sure I agree. Each religion has differing levels of structure to their adherents lives. And government requires faith that:

  1. They know what they are doing.
  2. They won't use the authority granted to them in evil ways.
    Not to mention:
  3. Even when evil is done, the faifhful will justify it with, "it is for the greater good".

@MONSOdO All governments suck, some more than others. Since people left to their own devices suck even more, governments are necessary. That is it in a nutshell. Besides that where would you get your roads, water, fire dept...

4

Welcome to the asylum. Enjoy your stay.

I've always defied "authority" figures. My mother said I was born defiant.
As long as I can remember, I've always questioned ALL those who claimed
power over me. Drove my mother, her husband, all my teachers, and all
my bosses, absolutely crazy.

Never been a good little corporate do-bee, either.
Always had a strong work-ethic, but always rebelled whenever any
boss or supervisor thought it was a good idea to be up my ass.
I always knew my job, and I always did my job. Except for when the
boss thought they should tell me how to do my job.

Glad I'm retired, and single.
Fuck authority.

6

I have never in my l adult ife bowed down to anyone or anything.....who got you to do that?! My favorite fairy tale has Always been the one about the Emperor having no clothes!

And this is why you ROCK!!!!

@KKGator why, thankyu,thankyuvurrymuch!

5

It depends on the government. Some elected officials think they reign over subjects. Others realize they are public servants.

g

They should be working for those who PAY them, that would be We The People!

@AnneWimsey That's the idea! But some lust for power and usurp ours.

g

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:419227
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.