Same God, different Messiahs.

I agree with almost everything, just one point of contention. Focusing on a particular problem doesn't make you a bigot or narrow-minded, that's pretty close to the argument the 'all lives matter' people are making.

@JeffMurray The argument that calling out bigotry makes one bigoted is, in fact, what the "all lives matter" people claim.

Violent fundamentalist Islam is a problem for the world; but no more so than violent fundamentalist Judaism, violent fundamentalist Christianity, violent fundamentalist Hindusim, violent fundamentalist Buddhism, violent fundamentalist Sikhism...

So let's have a poster that says, "Let's discuss what religion offers." That's the point I'm making. Picking out one among the many is in fact biased, and makes it seem as if that one religion is worse than all the rest, and deserves special disapproval.

@Paul4747 The truth is that the Quran teaches faithful Muslims to be at war with non-Muslims until they are all dead or converted. That is one wacky religion. It's not the same as all other religions, it is more dangerous than all the rest. And btw, 9/11 happened, it wasn't Hindis, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Sikhs...it was Muslims. Get that.

@Paul4747 I'm not at all suggesting that. I consistently have to argue that hating someone for being a bigot is different than hating someone for an arbitrary reason (like skin color). That is not at all what's happening. You're saying they can't call attention to one problem they want to focus on without calling attention to all similar problems as well. That is what the All Lives Matter people do.

Baloney.

What?! Ask him to actually read the book! The nerve! You must be one of those educated, smart women that conservatives hate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good for you.

What about the hadiths? A lot of sharia derives from the hadiths in addition to the Holy Quran

@Mitch07102 I'm liberal, like neo-communist. The difference is, the Christians have been hemmed in by social progress, which they would like to reverse, of course.
Islam will be tamed eventually, if the human race survives that long.
A better solution would be to come up with a whole new religion, based on science. (Hey, we gotta have SOMETHING!)

@Storm1752 We have one, it is called humanism and has been growing for 300 years. Harari discusses this well in his book Sapiens.

He's not preaching. He is practicing his version of bigotry and intolerance at our expense.

I propose we contemplate chickens.

That was then, now is now.

How is Islam worse that Christianity?

@redbai In Islam, the penalty for apostasy is death.

@FearlessFly In Acts 5:1-11, Saint Peter spoke words of judgment upon Ananias and Sapphira for lying to God (Ananias) and testing the Spirit (Sapphira), after which each of them fell dead.

In Romans 13:3-4, Saint Paul says, regarding obedience to authority, "...But if you do evil, be afraid, for [authority] does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer."[54] Pastor Steven Cornell cites this verse as an instance of civil justice and support for the death penalty.

Both Romans and Acts are books of the new testament defining Christianity. So apparently, in Christianity, lying to god, (whatever that is) or not being obedient to authority (even wrongly acting authority) has the death penalty too. Arbitrary use of the death penalty is an authoritarian tool regardless of religion.

@FearlessFly gee,nobody ever burned "witches"? Or, wait....The Spanish Inquisition? Or, the Spanish in South America? To name just a few...

@redbai "Arbitrary use of the death penalty is an authoritarian tool regardless of religion." Does that make either the religion or the death penalty tool any more acceptable?

@Mcflewster nobody is saying that, just saying one religion has no moral superiority, based on actions, over another.

@Mcflewster No. But put in the context of my answering another person, it does demonstrate that using death as a tool is no restricted to Islam.

@redbai At least they're not into beheadings, female mutilation, sharia law, etc., etc. (!).

@redbai Okay, but they've had about 1300 more years to moderate. Then there was the Enlightenment, which admittedly today's crop wants to overturn. If they ever do, THEN we can all kiss our asses goodbye.

@redbai Which religion TODAY is actually "using death as a tool" to maintain their religion ?

@FearlessFly Ummm...Islam?

@Storm1752 I find nitpicking atrocities to be disgusting. I find destroying whole cultures for the disgusting goal of bring them Jesus to be no better than cutting off individuals heads. The atrocities that "Christians" inflicted upon Africa and southern Asia to bring them Jesus is just as bad as what Islam has ever done.

The fact that the United States of America has justices on its Supreme Court who admit that they judge the rule of law through the prism of their religious beliefs is no better than sharia law. I don't know what "etc., etc." indicates in this context but the implication that there are more instances, I'm sure can be relatable to Christian atrocities too.

@Storm1752, @FearlessFly Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and any other religion sect that has fanatics.

@redbai . . . fanaticism doesn't necessarily require religion to be deadly, and only Islamic religion currently requires the death penalty for apostasy.
Perhaps you know this already.

@FearlessFly Not sure what your point regarding the requirements of fanaticism is supposed to make as I never said it did need religion. The idea that the death penalty for apostasy is any worse than lying to god or not obeying authority is simply self serving, it's an arbitrary standard regardless.

@redbai Agreed. And if our fundamentalists succeed in overthrowing the Enlightenment we'll have the same thing here they have in Saudi Arabia and Iran.
Hey, it could happen.

@redbai Naziism, Islam, any true belief is dangerous.

@Storm1752 IF our fundamentalist..., I would say that's incredibly naive and ignores the experiences of those not under the threat of religious violence in western civilizations under the sway of Christian believers. The only real difference is that Christianity has had longer to insinuate itself into the machinations of government and industry and thus don't have a need to be a obvious.

A Christian god validated slavery and the atrocities therein of the Americas. A Christian god validated "manifest destiny" and the atrocities therein with the destruction of the Native American cultures that exist prior to the introduction of Christianity in the Americas. To say it doesn't matter is to ignore the impact CHRISTIANITY had on the lives of those groups in which the religion was used to oppress.

@Storm1752 The phrase "true belief" is an oxymoron in my opinion.

@redbai All good points.

You can all debate about religion until your keyboards blow up. Until then, I will be enjoying a fire.

@Storm1752 I would prefer . Any 'true' belief needs checking . Otherwise you might give up searching for the truth. That would be disastrous. Each search always should have a caveat "Let us wait and see".

@AnneWimsey `I think I agree but saying it without the double negative would help.

@Mcflewster As an agnostic, I'll qualify it this way: anyone who says they believe IN something is taking a leap of faith.
To believe something because it is factually accurate--or is at least sufficiently supported by facts that an opinion is reasonable, and thus open for discussion--is the difference between, say, a belief in Jesus Christ and a belief reincarnation is a respectable topic for conversation.
That's what I mean, that "true belief" in this context means faith-based belief, not belief based on fact, or at least the appearance of fact, thus warranting further investigation.

@Storm1752 "faith-based belief, not belief based on fact," Please start from "any conclusion needs evidence". I actually think that faith is a Human necessity because it is impossible to get evidence quickly and sometimes it leads you in the right direction. Reincarnation how ever has no evidence to my knowledge and can be classified as "wishful thinking" on coincidences. There is scant evidence for any one Jesus although there may have been a few about which led to the belief. Any belief must not be based on one fact. You need a whole raft of unconnected facts that can be shown to lead to the same conclusion. 'Jesus is a fact' is just one fact that I fear is wrong. Fear, because it would be great to have a saviour. some people look for it in atheism (individual members of Four Horses of the appocalipse?)

@Mcflewster I didn't say "conclusion," I said enough facts to warrant further discussion.
Reincarnation is in that category. Google 'reincarnation, University of Virginia,' and read for yourself. No it's not definitive, but it comes close.
'Jesus' is another case in point: zero evidence other than the Bible 'he' existed. plenty of circumstantial (and historical) evidence 'he' did not. So, in my mind at least, the story was manufactured, very possibly by the Romans. But can I prove it? Given what we know now, we can hazard an educated guess, but absolute, concrete proof is beyond our grasp.

@Storm1752 I am really as a scientist only interested in Conclusions, well evidenced and indeed Buttressed ( if there is such a word) . These give one energy to build other work upon that conclusion. I will do as you asked . Again as I scientist I have no fear of the unknown (except perhaps a dental inspection) . Interesting conversation.

@Mcflewster Everybody has opinions about everything, including you, which can be discussed intelligently if so desired. Unless you're different; if so, I stand corrected.

@Storm1752 Sorry to be pedantic `opinions have lost currency, but they do have some value . Todays Bit coins are FACTS .

@Mcflewster Give me a freakin' break.

@Storm1752 Will do but I admire your tenacity.

@Mcflewster Thanks.

I know you know Islam is not a race, so the post can't be "racist".

@Hages. Yes, enslavement.

@Hages Many other religions depend on submission too. Of course it is not necessary to ask any man or woman to submit to get the best out of them.