I have a friend that constantly says. "I am a Catholic. We are not Christians. We are Pagans. I know some opponents of Catholicism say they are pagans, but does it make any sense for a person to proudly proclaim being Catholic, non Christian and Pagan?
Your friend either is being disingenuous or doesn't understand the meaning of the words they're using. Christianity split in the Great Schism (mid 11th century) into the Western Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox (Byzantine) Church. Catholicism later gave rise to Protestantism during the Protestant Reformation (early 16th century through mid 17th century), and Anglicanism (mid 16th century) when King Henry VIII wanted an annulment of his marriage but the Catholic Church forbade it. To this day, Catholicism is the largest Christian denomination with about 1.2 billion members. Catholic doctrine holds to the divinity of Jesus and his role as Christ (i.e., savior/redeemer), and Catholics follow the purported teachings of Jesus.
Paganism has a few meanings, but it's hard to see how any of them could apply to Catholicism:
(Source: American Heritage Dictionary)
Your friend may be messing with you, just pulling your leg. Or they may truly not understand the history of their religion and the meaning of the words they're using.
My understanding is that anyone who claims to worship Christ and claims he is a deity is a Christian so, therefore, the RCC is Christian. The supposedly pagan rituals were adopted over time.
@Fletch True. I think the pagan holidays were coöpted by the Catholic Church little by little as a marketing strategy of sorts, because the pagans were often welcoming of new holidays and celebrations — but over time the Church told the pagans that only the Christian holidays were valid of acceptable. This is why Christmas is celebrated near the winter solstice and why Easter is a) named Easter and b) measured out from the vernal equinox with respect to moon cycles. The Church tried to coöpt Halloween in a similar way, with All Saints Day and All Soul's Day, but it didn't stick.
Then you've got the Anglican (Episcopal) church and the various Lutheran churches. They have many of the Catholic rituals. Robin Williams had the famous quote "All the rituals, half the guilt." My understanding is that the Christmas tree and other holiday traditions are "pagan" in origin. I don't even think most people living today know what paganism is and just like to throw the word around.
Being a former Catholic, I can tell you that Catholics do worship Christ and fall into the Christian umbrella.
That is an odd claim.
I know that Protestant Christians will sometimes claim Catholics are Pagan because they "worship" false idols .... referring to statues of saints and the Christ figure, etc. But that would be the Protestants with that claim, it is unusual to hear a Catholic making that claim.
But then, it's their fairy tale, they can claim whatever the heck they like.
That was my response to him as well. I know they are people who consider Catholics as pagans, but you have to be the first and only "Catholic" who considers themselves as pagan.
Here is the determining question: do they wear underwear when riding their brooms?
Maybe, but the broomsticks could be up their fudge tunnel also. Lol
If they walk like a duck...... Bugs says "Shoot him."
Yea!! Shoot ‘em now!! Shoot ‘em now!! LMAO
Does your friend use drugs? They are impacting him.
Probably hallucinogens like Acid, Angel Dust, LSD. Mushrooms. Or a combination.
"Catholic" is defined as "all-embracing", so the Catholic church is supposedly THE One True Church. Needless to say, they worship God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that Son is Jesus. It's.... kinda hard to get more Christian than that.
Some Protestants, Baptists, Evangelicals and other churches claim the Catholics aren't true Christians (and in fact are violating commandments) because they have graven images, they venerate Mary and the various Archangels, guardian angels, and patron saints they've made up. [en.wikipedia.org]
I'll give them this- the Catholics move with the times. Just under the letter A there are patron saints responsible for motorists (St. Anthony the Abbott), scientists (Albertus Magnus), and arms dealers (Adrian of Nicomedia). What that says about Heaven's tacit approval for arms dealers, I'm not going to get into.
Religion is notorious for giving words expedient meanings unique to their own context.
The Temerity of the churches knows no bounds.
You know there's one in every crowd.
Religious people can call themselves anything they want... just as valid as pagans or christians, which is not at all.
Calling yourself denomination X is as binding as Trump calling himself a businessman, president, or politician, when he is none of the above.
When it comes to religion, anyone can make anything up........do you think they really care if it’s real?
Catholics assume they can do anything because they are the only thing. Reminds me of the old saw about a guy who ascends to heaven and is getting the guide tour of the place by St. Peter and they come up against a walled off section and the guy asks what's inside the enclosed space. St. Peter says "That's where we keep the Catholics because they think they are the only ones up here and we don't want to upset them".
Did they elaborate? Either way, they can call themselves whatever they want, and we will still see them as Christians — followers of and believers in Christ.
Or, as many of us do, "poor deluded fools."
Clarification
Me: I don't believe in Christianity
Him: I am not Christian, I am Catholic
Me: Catholics are Christians, Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity.
Him: No we are not, we are Pagans
Me: The Rome in the Roman Catholic Church are the ones that came up with the word pagans, and they weren't talking about themselves. They were talking about everybody else that wasn't Christians.
Many claim that Catholics are not Christians. I find this absurd when Evangelicals and others use the bible dating system along with creation and even a bible verse system that actually came from Catholics. Religion is so very strange.
Growing up in mostly Baptist churches, I was taught that Catholics were going to hell because they believed that they were saved by the Church and relied on rituals, not Jesus directly. Plus they pray to saints and have the Pope (who was believed to be a tool of Satan not of god).
It is ironic that they accept the bible as it is, and claim it is infallible, even though it was Catholics who decided which books should make up the bible, and which should be excluded, and had absolute control over it for so long.
And stupid.
I just wanted to mention that this same friend also said "I have never seen a christian in a Catholic church"
You'd be hard pressed to find a " True" Christian in absolutely ANY Church, it'd like looking for Rocking Horse manure imo.
Most Christians just go for the social life. I'm serious. They like the "praise band" or the coffee.
Then he is just making a moral evaluation, using the "true scotsman" argument.
If you go down this rabbit hole, only a perfect follower of the bible will be a Christian, and there is no person that fits this description. Thus there are no Christians.
Considering that since the word 'Pagan' was and is derived directly from the Latin word 'paganus' -meaning simply "rural," "rustic," "not from the city of Rome," etc, etc, but, as with countless other words and their meanings, was tewisted and warped by Christians and Christianity circa the late 4th. - early 5th centuries C.E. ( A.D. for those still using the Christian notations) to suit their somewhat quasi-militaristic drives to make everyone a Christian, then I say that who ever it is that claims to be Catholic and Pagan knows very little at all about the true origin and meaning of the word.
Plus, at least 87% of what we now knows as 'christianity' originated in the Ancient Roman Empire when Emperor Constantine issued the edict to make then Messianic Religion, later to be called Christianity btw, a legal and recognised religion within the Empire.
From there grew the 'cancer' we know today as first, the Holy Roman Catholic Empire and later the Holy Roman Church.
It may also be worth noting that the Hebrews of old and the modern Jews of today NEVER saw this mythological Jesus character as either their Messiah/Saviour/Prophet, etc, etc, at all, merely just another 'random,' wandering, itinerant, and often heretic religious non-entity.
"pagan" is maybe not really the condemnation we make it out to be wadr, understand why the publicans and prostitutes are beating you into the kingdom
However, so often when used by the Faithfools to describe others like Atheists, etc, it IS used in a quite derogatory and derisive manner and meaning.
It sounds as though your friend is either confused or pulling your leg. The Pope is, after all, "The Vicar of Christ".
Christians claim Catholicism as a cult because Jesus is not head of The Church. The Pope is. There are some other corresponding issues (like confession and communion) but that is the big conflict. Of course, like I said above, Evan's/SB also no longer extoll the teachings of Jesus. They are centered on the OT God.