ok im baked and wanna pose a thought
have human beings stopped evolving?
i understand that evolution doesnt stop and its such a huge time scale thing
what im wondering is with all that we are and have become (social media, instant gratification society, age of information, fat epidemic, etc) where do we go next?
climate change will be everything of course and would be fun to think of what kinda changes would take place
if the shore starts devouring the shorelines perhaps ppl would develop webbed feet and females give birth in water maybe idk
is this question philosophical? is it cliche? do u think im batshit cray?
i give u all my best around here, don't keep tagging me cuz im too old for games
love,
drew
As others have said, evolution is adaptation to particular environmental conditions. The individuals who are better suited to survive and reproduce under the set of conditions have their genes passed on. In this way, species should be understood to be elements of their environments.
Humans are a bit different because we have been able to adapt to all sorts of environments making our intellect and creativity for survival the factors passed onto sebsequent generations. It is what has allowed humans to expand into all biomes on earth (except Antartica).
Have humans stopped evolving? My answer would be a qualified no. Stephen J Gould came up with a theory of Punctuated Equilibrium. He noticed that animals in the fossil record appeared to remain in a rather stable form until some event like climate change or a catastrophe changed the environment. Then a relatively rapid evolution occurred creating new species to fill new or vacated niches in the environment, and this was then followed by rather stable forms of animals until the next event occurred. The fact is that the same pressures that cause animals to evolve into new forms when conditions change will exert pressures to cause them to remain relatively the same when conditions are stable. Certain exception may exist such as gazelle that can run faster pressures cheetahs to also need to run faster. At some point, however, there would likely be a maximum speed to be reached. Whether or not it already has is difficult to say.
Back to humans: I would think that human evolution would remain slow so long as we are able to insulate ourselves from our environments. The elements need to have an effect on the individuals of a species killing off or causing them illnesses so they are unable to breed to drive humans to evolve into different forms. Until that occurs, I doubt we will see a great deal of change in human beings.
lets condider devolution too, that seems to be where the action is. tv, radio, computer herd behaviors seem to be the overwhelming drivers
@holdenc98 - I don't really believe in devolution. Evolution is the process of change to better fit into a niche within an environment. If that means the loss of certain traits beneficial under other conditions, then the species has evolved even if we consider it less than it was before. Sloths today are not at all like their kin thousands of years ago, but today's sloths are here and their giant relatives are not. Did they devolve? Or did they evolve into a form that allowed them to exist and persist?
That ignores the effects of sexual selection and genetic drift. Evolution acts fast when there is a change in the environment, human culture and technology have made one of the most rapid changes in the environment ever seen by any creature. Especially as you say. "I would think that human evolution would remain slow so long as we are able to insulate ourselves from our environments." But being able to insulate yourself from certain environmental pressures, does not bring a stop to evolution, it only means that the pressures remaining become more important.
That includes especially internal factors such as sexual selection. One of the big effects of which (Just for example, it is far from the only one.) will be the drive towards sexual dimorphism, which is normally blocked by environmental pressures. But when those pressures are removed, then there is nothing to stop males growing much bigger and more aggressive, and females growing smaller and more passive, because they are the types who breed most successfully. The ultimate feminist nightmare perhaps. Generally we may also grow more aggressive and loose emotions of social empathy, because society and breeding rewards aggression, while medical science, removes many of the consequences of aggression. For example a human who suffers a broken bone as a result of fighting will today survive, where in the past they would most likely die.
If humans do survive the current global problems, such as global warming, then the effects of evolution will be very evil to all those qualities we today regard as our higher functions. ( There is some evidence, our brains have been shrinking rapidly since the agricultural revolution. ) Until eventually some crisis, perhaps quite a small one, such as the machines which feed us break down and we can not mend them anymore, comes along which we are unable to deal with, and we go extinct.
This so reminds me of my late mother, who was a fundamentalist Salvationist Christian, once describing to 7 year old me that "evil-ution" was a stupid idea from the Devil himself, that suggested if you throw a horse in the river enough times it will grow gills and swim away.
I am stealing from Vonnegut. Dinosaurs were an attempt at exploring the advantages of big bodies. Big bodies were not the way to go. Humans were an attempt at exploring big brains. Big brains were not the way to go.
Had it not been for Chicxulub the reptiles might have gone on to form intelligent life today. Probably, in a much smaller form. I have read evolution tends to more complexity and smaller size.
I firmly believe that evolution is going to do away with human legs and feet. So many people won't go to get their mail unless they are sitting on their ass riding something.
In order to be an evolutionary success you just have to be able to live long enough to pass on your genes. We have the technological ability that allows people to meet that criterion that in times past would not. That is a good thing in a sense that it allows for more variety in the gene pool. Climate change is not going to affect evolution that much if we use that technology to keep people alive that would otherwise be killed off by environmental changes. In my opinion what will affect human evolution more is whether or not people choose not to reproduce. People who choose to remain childless are taking their genes out of the gene pool and are therefore evolutionary dead ends. I read somewhere that the advent of the birth control pill is having an affect on what kind of men get to reproduce. What may be more interesting to look at is the rise of lgbqt(?). Those tendencies could be random mutations that have sprung up and natural selection will decide if those genes get to stay in the gene pool and even get to be more prominent. There is also a report that the Y chromosome associated with being male is beginning to disappear. I wish I could jump into a time machine to find out if any of this goes anywhere. Bottom line is that the direction human evolution will take may not so much be affected by the physical environment but by how much the social environment determines who gets to survive and reproduce.
For evolution to go forward beings need to adapt to changing times. There are life forms that have not evolved over millions of years because there was no need to. Physically, I think we have devolved in certain areas. Many of us who would not have survived (as myself) are able to do so thanks to technology (medications, glasses, surgeries and other technological advances). Still, we are living longer and many are in better health. But, we have still not learned basic facts of life and we will most likely devolve our way into extinction. At that point many other species can start evolving again since they won't have us to push them aside.
the key to any species outsde the primates suceeding us as the bearer of "intelligence"is language. no language, no selection for intelligence. when we soon finish ruining not only ourselves but all the rest of higher earth life, (after all the 6th mass extinction is named after us) there will be no capable vocally endowed species in the wings. life here has been around almost as long as the planet itself. about 4 billion years. but after this final spree of riotous idiocy that seems to have come with the evolution of our own "intelligence" past hunter gatherer ... and then this final drunken spree which is the industrial revolution, expect a demotion of at least 600 million years. or maybe the planet will be expelled perminantly from "intelligent life school". a blessing that would be for any other milky way life in the neighborhood
@holdenc98 I am fully aware of the Anthropocene Era. It seems there is a lot of serendipity in my life lately and I just read in the book "Rooted" by Lyanda Lynn Haupt, "The belief that speech is purely human property was entirely alien to those oral communities that first evolved our various ways of speaking, and by holding sch a belief today we may well be inhibiting the spontaneous activity of language, By denying that birds and other animals have their own styles of speech, by insisting that the river has no real voice and the ground itself is mute, we stifle our direct experience. We cut ourselves off from the deep meaning in many of our words, severing our language from that which supports and sustains it. We then wonder why we are so often unable to communicate, even among ourselves."
More and more we are learning that other species have a conscious and intelligence approaching our own. S\For example such animals as Orca whales or whales in general, elephants and many others. All sentient creatures have speech of their own. These animals all live within nature and do not destroy it as we do. Also, did you see my posting, yesterday, concerning the Wood Wide Web?
In a recent article which, I posted, it was deduced that there have been billions of intelligent supporting planets in our galaxy within the 'Goldilocks' zone that may well have contained 'intelligent' life. Problem is most life forms have an expiration date and it will include our own.
@JackPedigo .........my god! its the spirit of crista tippit channelled through a guy picking apples in a blue landsend flight jacket. youve floored me. the fancipants adjectives and verb phrases rush my superior primate brain (i truly love the crows, but i am smarter even than they are), ........balderdash, drank the NPR cool aid, bought into the ludicrous myth that women can think? ........no, not at all. .......more like insightful, sagan-like, and of course "diverse". but my point is that intelligence itself, coupled as it always is and must be, with life's natural boundless greed, is itself poisonous. to paraphrase carl, "the universe is not hostile to the fate of intelligent life, just profoundly indifferent". in my favorite sagan analogy of all, he compares the births, dangerous adolescences, and regular deaths of intelligent life forms in our gallaxy to the blinking on and off of 10,000 fireflies on a late may evening in north carolina ....i will find time to check your citations if BLM will stop ouraging me every 5 minutes, i do like your stuff, especially the eco you . burn this comment.
@holdenc98 First off, BLM stands for the Bureau of Land Management. This has been around a lot longer than the black lives matter movement. Here, there is an office and I have been a big volunteer for years. We need to get our acronyms straight.
The indifferent universe is akin to the belief by many of the founders about god. They were deists who felt there was a creator but did not interfere in the workings of its creations. Unfortunately, indifference can often be perceived to be hostile. Reminds me of the 'prime directive' from the Star Trek next generation series. A directive that was broken over and over by meddling, bleeding heart space explorers.
BTW, we like to think we are smarter than crows but just try getting by in the wild as they do. The same author that wrote the book I pulled my quote from also wrote a book "Crow Planet." [nytimes.com]
@holdenc98 Oh, forgot to mention it was not a Land End flight jacket but an ordinary cheap jacket from a local store. Also, believe it or not, I was not picking apples but Kiwis. We have a Kiwi farm across the street and this was in December.
Actually, evolution does indeed stop. Evolution is (typically) adaptation for survival though there are also random mutations as well.
Evolution is not a destination. Sharks haven't changed much at all in many millions of years. Sharks are perfectly adapted to their environment and have no need to change. Evolution is survival of those best capable of adapting to change.
Humans have changed/evolved over the past few hundred years largely due to changes in diet and better nutrition, better healthcare, and changes we've made to our own living environment.
We won't develop webbed feet because we can retreat from the shores or build walls to keep the water at bay. We'd only develop webbed feet if it was advantageous to our survival - such that people with webbed feet had a better chance of living and reproducing and therefore passing on the gene for webbed feet to their children.
in a complex society which functions as a world wide economic machine, the old principles of darwinian evolution take a sudden sinister turn. new traits, perhaps reprehensable in world perspective, probably more mental/moral than physical, may advantage a given individual reproductively, in one of the many subcultures which may compete with each other but none the less intergrate in the implicit common world specie goal of raping the planets resourses.......SEE THE MOVIE KOYAANISQUASTSI !!! .......... and of course such raping runs our species and the majority of our unlucky innocent companion species, directly over the extinction cliff. evolution is obviously a failed completely natural mechanism that created both our ascention and now our natural and inevitable destruction. none of this violates any law of nature.
Hmmm.
Evolving...or mutating? Are they really any different?
Just as the virus continues to mutate, so do we. If we change our environment substantially (as we seem hell-bent on doing), we'll mutate to adapt to that, too.
(Or not. Ref: extinction level events).
I'm curious to see the mutations that win out in the short run, say 10,000-50,000 years or so, assuming our species survives that long. We've used many advances in science to alter both ourselves and our environ, making old-fashioned evolution kind of superfluous.
We alter ourselves through healthcare, dramatic interventions to save lives that nature would have taken or prevented (e.g. pre-term births, assisted fertility). We alter our environ with housing, clothing, better nutrition, et al.
With both of these factors, I'd be surprised if our species DIDN'T mutate fairly quickly. Many humans who never would have reproduced (either through infertility or not living long enough) can now do so. [And please note: I am NOT bashing any of these things. I know many wonderful parents who've been aided by scientific intervention. Just stating facts.]
I wonder if we'll get worse as a species -devolve, if you will - or hit a point where we actually can improve ourselves. Will the smart people stop procreating because we see the world for what it is right now, leaving only idiots to populate the earth? Will we figure out how to responsibly use genetic interventions and make fantastic advances? Or, as it seems lately, will we simply self-annihilate?
Things to ponder, thank you. And I'm not currently baked, but workin' on it
I think humans are evolving to have larger feet. For the people in my generation shoe sizes of larger than 12 were kind of rare. For their kids and grand-kids, it is rare for them to have shoe sizes smaller than size 12. Some of them wear size 15 and 16. That's some big feet. What that means I have no idea.
According to epidemiological studies, one or both of the maxillary lateral incisors are congenitally missing in approximately 2% of the population.
Anodontia is a genetic or congenital (hereditary) absence of one or several temporary or permanent teeth. Maxillary laterals are the third most common missing teeth behind third molars and mandibular second premolars.
These numbers are on the rise.
So. Yeah. We are evolving currently and the internet has nothing to do with it.
Sadly it sure af doesn’t seem to be making us any smarter.
Kinder, though, at least. Younger folk are kinder.
Well, 1st off, u answered ur own question. "Have humans stopped evolving? I understand evolution doesn't stop." And I would argue technology would more likely aid evolution, not stunt it.and how climate affects us happens so slowly, no way for us to comprehend. How long ago and how long did it take for the Barrier straight to from Alaska to Russia take to separate, or for rainforests to develop?
i think it’s easy to forget how far we have come, especially with the constant negative view of the future that the media generally portrays, that panders to our idealism? So i don’t mean forget about tomorrow entirely, but i would understand that our great-grandparents would likely suspect that we were lying if we were to describe our current lives to them, we have it so good, and i would avoid consuming too much news, basically, or any other source that paints a doomsday scenario for tomorrow, or for that matter plays on our unrealized fears any kind of way
Ppl are building “survival shelters” now i guess, it’s Bomb Shelter 2.0 lol, how quickly we forget
you can find 100 cities that have been devoured by the shoreline ok, it’s not a new thing at all
Evolution acts fast when there is a change in the environment, and human culture and technology have made one of the most rapid changes in the environment ever seen by any creature. Being able to insulate yourself from certain environmental pressures, does not bring a stop to evolution, it only means that the pressures remaining become more important.
That includes, especially, internal factors, such as sexual selection. One of the big effects of which, (Just for example, it is far from the only one.) will be the drive towards sexual dimorphism, which is normally blocked by environmental pressures. But when those pressures are removed, then there is nothing to stop males growing much bigger and more aggressive, and females growing smaller and more passive, because they are the types who breed most successfully. The ultimate feminist nightmare perhaps.
Generally we may also grow more aggressive and loose emotions of social empathy, because society and breeding rewards aggression, while medical science, removes many of the consequences of aggression. For example a human who suffers a broken bone as a result of fighting will today survive, where in the past they would most likely die.
If humans do survive the current global problems, such as global warming, then the effects of evolution will probably, be very evil to all those qualities we today regard as our higher functions, certainly leading to less social cohesion. ( There is some evidence, our brains have been shrinking rapidly since the agricultural revolution, as farmers no longer need the large brains of hunter gathers to survive, and the poorer diet puts a premium on not having large hungry organs like brains. ) Until eventually some crisis, perhaps quite a small one, such as the machines which feed us break down and we can not mend them anymore, comes along, which with small brains and poor social skills, we are unable to deal with, and we go extinct.
With climate changes happening before our eyes, it’s hard to imagine an evolutionary future for the planet might ch less humans. I know it sounds “dooms day” like but it feels as if the effects of climate change are speeding up. Like dominos, as each tile falls into the next, in the end there will be nothing left standing.
There will be lots of creatures left standing just not that which caused the crash. When Chicxulub came crashing the large reptiles were wiped out but the small rodents survived and evolved into many other forms including us (yes we owe our existence due to rats). Another scenario is the advent of a nuclear winter due to an atomic war and even if we are gone many other creatures will live on. Right now many animals have resettled into Chernobyl since there are no humans to take away their habitat.
Evolution is always at play. These days it seems that thee are two species of human evolving on this planet. There are those who care about others and have some empathy, and there are those who do not, see everyone as something to be dominated or made subservient. Those who see people as ways to make money will hopefully come to perish, allowing those with the ability to a means to sustainability. I was hoping this epidemic was going to call for the rapture and would take care of some of these not fit for the future. Thoughts?
sometimes certain websites act as negative social filters, and a greshams law of natural selection causes thought chaos and general stupidness to force the smart people to leave. then the stage is set for "devolution". just take a look around you here. who do you see? even sites which would seemingly select for intelligence can get infected and corrupted by the legion of new morons being generated continuously by the monopoly media, especially the public ones.
As @Charles1971 has observed, evolution happens faster when the environment changes faster. I very much doubt that we have stopped evolving. We have certainly evolved over the last 2,000 years. Look the the second toe on ancient Greek and Roman sculptures and what is prevalent today (hint: they are shorter these days, but I have no idea why this should be).
Your question is not philosophical, it has real meaning.
No, it is not a cliché.
No, I do not think that you are in the slightest bit crazy (but that does not preclude me being batshit crazy, certainly if you listen to some god freaks).
How might we evolve in the future? I have not the faintest idea.
It's an excellent question, and I will give my answer in another post.
Humans and their evolution will soon be irrelevant. AI is going to eat us all. In evolutionary time terms, it won't even be a blink. See Harari's Home Deus.
I started to read the "Homo Deus" and found it terrible. Here is another take on AI [secularhumanism.org]
@JackPedigo I'll read it and let you know what I think
I see no reason to expect humans to stop evolving, even though humans are being selected for different things than they used to be.