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Flat Earther relative?

I found out disturbing news that one of my family members is a Flat Earther. I guess it does not surprise me a lot, because I knew he listened to Alex Jones. Still, the idea that Earth is a sphere is not all that hard to test on your own, so if I somehow came to the point that a flat earther's arguments started making sense, I think I would do a few experiments myself to test it out.

I guess my biggest problem is not so much that his silly flat Earth idea is by itself harmful, but more so that anyone able to believe such a thing could honestly be suckered into believing anything, like the Sandy Hook shooting was a hoax, and Proctor and Gamble said they were a Satanic cult on national TV, oh never mind he believed those too.

So my question is, should I engage him on these ideas, the Flat Earth stuff seems easier to question, though I have not?Also, if I do talk to him about it, how do you do it without making him mad, because I probably know enough about it to come off as a know it all to him.

Thanks, in advance.

TomS299 4 Apr 27
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18 comments

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0

Yes, I suppose the conspiracy theory mentality is susceptible to lots of different nonsense. What tickles me about the flat Earth theory is the number of conspiracy theories you have to believe in to make it work, i.e.

  1. NASA existing (and being massively funded) primarily to perpetuate the spherical Earth hoax... for no clear benefit to anyone.
  2. Believing that cold war era USA and USSR would actually collude on anything. Yet both created similar hoaxes about putting spacecraft into orbit.
  3. Dismissing all photographic evidence as fake, regardless of its source.
  4. Denying the existence of Australia (and presumably the rest of the Southern Hemisphere at some point) because the geography simply doesn't work for the Flat Earth model. Anyone who has been to these places was either tricked, or is part of the conspiracy.
  5. Denying gravity, in favour of our disc constantly accelerating upwards, for no particular reason.
  6. Denying the way that GPS and similar positioning systems work, without providing any rational alternative explanation. Clearly, anyone who's worked on any of these systems in any kind of depth is part of the conspiracy, too.

Anyone who will try that hard to hammer a square peg into a round hole, has the potential to believe anything. I wouldn't waste your breath trying to change his mind.

1

Someone like that is probably too far gone to be reasoned with sadly. If you do attempt it though, try asking cutting questions rather than giving proof. Questions can back him into a corner or force him to face contradictory beliefs.

1

Just take him to watch a sunset, as opposed to a sun moves away, and let him join the dots. If he doesn't get it don't waste your time 🙂

0

I wouldn't engage at all. I'm happy that they think the earth is flat.

1

Thanks for all the advice. I am leaning towards the idea of not engaging him on the topic unless he brings it up. If he does, I will listen to him and just ask him questions on his position and if possible why he holds them. I will not try to directly persuade him, because I think that will probably just get me worked up. I will probably just take it a step or two further than my sister-in-law did (just nodding and walking away from the discussion.)

1

Maybe try and talk to him about other cool science related shit (I dunno, peacock spiders, non Newtonian liquids, latest developments in prosthetics - anything out of left field) and hope that curiosity about real stuff overtakes the conspiracy bollocks.

1

The flat-earther stuff is stupid but basically harmless.

Alex Jones insistence that Sandy Hook and other mass shootings were faked is about as vile as you can get and still be classified as marginally human.

Some of those parents grieving those babies have received death threats.

Let me guess.

He denies the Holocaust too.

1

This comes to mind

2

It's probably fairly useless to try and convince a flat-earther that they're wrong... Just like it's useless to try and persuade a Christian to leave the faith.

If it were me, I'd just avoid discussion regarding the shape of the planet.

That was my sister-in-laws plan. She just listened to him talk and nodded then tried to get away from the conversation.

1

Here is a video about Engaging in Complex Conversations

she is brilliant and this really is some great advise.

Good advice. I am not sure I will be met by a reasonable person, but pushing my views on him without really at least listening to his points will probably end the conversation. I have read similar stuff in a book called critical conversations. Thanks for he video.

@TomS299 She is great and from my outside view I would say you need to be extremely patient and chip at it a little at a time.

5

Here's an easy one. If you accucurately measure the angles in the triangle formed between Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Chicago, you with find they don't add up to 180. Why? Spherical Geometry. Here are two more. People in the northern hemisphere cannot see the Southern Cross. People in the southern hemisphere cannot see the North Star. If we lived in a flat Earth both of these constellations would be visible everywhere.

I thought about telling him to take a trip to the southern hemisphere and check out the stars and question why they are different than the stars in the north, along with about 3 even cheaper tests that could debunk the flat Earth position. I don't know, but I would guess that the angles thing would not work well because he will just pull out a flat map and say yes it is a 180.

3

I heard about a long time before I finally decided to listen to what they have to say. Yes it is as dumb as I thought it was. lol.

5

Flat earthers have a hard time explaining seasons. I would start there and let him try to explain it. Tell him you will not debate him but want to hear him out with an open mind but he must state only facts and examples and, never use the words "I believe". Just listen intently. When you think, he's exhausted all his hypothesis on that subject, then ask him to explain a moon eclipse. Then a sun eclipse. Then tides. Then why is Mars round. Then how gravity works. By then he should be exhausted but you can finish by saying, how come in this age of social media and smart phones, nobody has ever traveled to the edge of earth and taken a picture and posted yet?

2

Relative to what?..

4

Dumb is the new cool.

godef Level 7 Apr 27, 2018
4

No, I wouldn't engage him on any of his ridiculous beliefs. There's zero chance you can change his mind, no matter the evidence presented.

vita Level 7 Apr 27, 2018
6

Voltaire said this: Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

My brother has some really wacky beliefs, but despite that he is actually pretty harmless. I did unfriend him on facebook after he posted a bunch of bigoted stuff about Muslims, but he is not one to go out and cause problems in people's actual lives, at least not on purpose. Everyone that works with him seems to like him, even though they seem to know about some of his absurd notions.

@TomS299 I have to wonder if he really holds to his professed beliefs or if he's vying for some kind of attention from his family... do you think? Where did he come by his ideas?

@HeraTera I can only guess where he got them from, because I have never actually talk to him about it, at least the flat earth stuff. I only heard from other family members about it. When my oldest brother (JS) told me I did not believe it (he lies a lot) so I asked his wife and she confirmed it. I know DS, the flat earther, believes in many conspiracy theories and seems to be extraordinarily bad at discerning fact from fiction. My sister in law said that DS read it on a website. I don't think he does it for attention, because his behaviors get him enough attention, he does need whacky beliefs for that.

6

My favorite quote I saw by some high placed flat earth society member was something like, "There are 10s of 1,000s of us around the globe." ......idjits.

LOL, my son, who fancies himself a comedian told me that one.

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