Really i just posted bcause of the machine. The hebrews borrowed there deity from the canaanites, or they branched from them, or both split from the hyksos. With that being stated, the bible stories were mostly taken from Sumerian cosmology. The sumerians state that humans/lulu/adamu were created by mixing themselves Anunaki with ape species. The Anunaki are from a different planet. That is what Sumerian text cuniform. Sumerians give humanity 100 1st. Writing, law, cities, wheel, irrigation, houses of brick, sciences, ect the list goes on. Some scholars are devided on the translation. Some translate as the anunaki were present when humans were created. Regardless, sumerian cosmology is were judaism created there stories and deity from.

@Etre
Hi:

You wrote:

"...Really i just posted bcause of the machine. The hebrews borrowed there deity from the canaanites, or they branched from them, or both split from the hyksos...."

Right away I am not sure what you are talking about, and then you are off to the races with some things about the Sumerians, so to take this back to what I said, and really to take 5 or 10 steps back and try to get some perspective (and isn't that in the spirit of both anthropology and archaeology, or at least some aspects of it?):

"...fwiw, I thought it was sort of interesting that, from what little I saw of the videos that were posted, the argumentation was similar to some theistic arguments - something is so fantastic that it can't possibly be explained by humans pulling it off...."

So, here are some additional thoughts from me:

• I'm not certain, and am not going to spend time researching a lot of your past postings, but I think you've posted multiple videos referencing what some might see as fringe or downright poorly-reasoned interpretations of exciting archaeological discoveries. I saw not only the first few bits of this recent machine one, but something about the Egyptian pyramids? In the two I tried to watch (and more than one of these has been lengthy) they seemed to go into this with "these technologies are so utterly fantastic, .... well beyond what we would have considered possible for humans at that time... .therefore.... therefore... therefore..." and then it is implied you just have to go somewhere with it that is non-standard. I didn't have the time or interest to watch through into the end, but I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to get me to conclude "aliens" or who-knows-what.

• I thought Druvius invested a bit of time and gave you a very thoughtful response to some of this, essentially concluding no aliens or supernatural stuff is necessary to explain what we have found on that recent machine post You responded that you agreed. But do you really?

If you really don't think much of alien hypothesizing to explain oddball developments, then why keep suggesting that your fellow group members spend significant amounts of time watching videos that seem to take us in those directions? Or have I misread where those videos go, since I only got through a very tiny bit in a couple of cases?

Or, maybe you just need to reference those videos because they are the only ones ready-to-hand that really highlight the exciting archaeological discoveries, and you were thinking the fringe hypothesis efforts are eminently ignorable. If that is the case, then I think some of this is addressed by simply referencing more reputable videos (even if a bit harder to find) that highlight the exciting discoveries but without needlessly devolving into nonsense.

If in the end you do sometimes see an ancient alien hypothesis as being worth at least considering, then I think you can meet the group rules and participants partway by just being honest about that, but that you understand this group simply isn't going to be about discussing those things.

• You've clearly invested a lot of effort in assembling a lot of knowledge. I think it would be sad if you aren't able to find a way to participate that is within the group rules, and that allows us to learn from some of your points, but which also allows you to interact with some of your fellow agnostic/atheists and get the benefit of some of their perspective.

• Let's keep in mind also that this is a group of agnostics/atheists. A lot of us have utterly and permanently had it with investing time in reasoning along the lines of:
  "....The only explanation that really fits these facts very well is _____.... "
  where the blank is filled in with whatever is the latest cop-out du jour, whether it be "God" or "Many Gods" or "demons" or "aliens" or whatever.

• Coming back to my original point, I did think it was psychologically or anthropologically interesting that some of these fringe videos did employ such reasoning as I've seen with theistic-oriented videos.

• I suppose eventually we may well discover other sentient beings in the universe, and when we do, we might (it is not entirely implausible to suggest) find that they, or some of them, visited or studied our planet before we became space-faring. Aside from the group owner's laying down of the rules, my own reason for not wanting to spend time on these alien-hypotheses-to-explain-human-history is that they have so far appeared to me to be really cheap intellectual cop-outs, generally better than supernatural/God hypotheses only by some tiny amount.

@kmaz

Basically in a nut shell, my retort to you was to explain the drama that surrounds the post. I stated and I will clarify; I did not pay attention to the video. I saw it was about the antikytherm mechanism and I posted. I only watched a few minutes.

You began discussing the theistic argument. I countered withe historical data. However displaced the argument may have been.

I find it extremely enlightening how so many atheist and agnostic persons know so little about the deity they disbelieve in. I guess you could say deities in the plural civilization sens... Ergo,....Ergo..... Ergo.....

The roots of the judaic/hebrew/catholic/islamic/christian deity, can easily be uprooted and placed along side the Great deities of Mythology.

However it may be perceived, my post are not in support of Ancient Aliens Hypothisis. However I am not willing to say that that is not a possibility given the inaccurate and sometimes misleading knowledge that is taught by scholarship to the common consciousness. I am not reffering to nor excluding Archeology/Athropology. Though it has occurred.

Ergo....

My post follow a line of discussion that I discovered a long time. Control of Human Consciousness is the means by which populations of humans are controlled. The manifestation of the spirit of this consciousness is basically how we as a civilization came to this point in being. I am reffering to the God Consciousness here.

The history shows us that you have 3 classes, the Noble, Priest, Common/slave for thousands of years. Then we evolve to Noble, Priest, Merchant, common/slave. In modern terms the varriance more devided, however the concept exists. For thousands of years only the top classes received educations. This is why the Egyptians were so Great at using Symbols to Control Slave Consciousness. Semiotics. Just like corporations use logos to subvert human consciousness to purchase products. Learn about Edward Bernays. Watch documentary "the corporation".

The upper classes knew the jesus myth. God was and is still being used to influence the consciousness of lower conscious beings. Think plato's cave.

Do you think in your scholarship that knowledge has not been withheld from civilization by academia? Do you think knowledge is witheld from Academians? Is that not a conspiracy?

When were the Sumerian text discovered? When were they translated? Those texts destroy judaism, which in turn destroys Catholicism, Islam, and Cristianity.

They have known for a very long time. That in itself is a conspiracy.

With that being stated, it is my belief that our history as a civilization has not been entirely given to us in its true form, rather shades. This is 100% true in regards to the Christian monotheistic paradigm. At least I can state this about American Academia, maybe not so much now as in the past. But I feel we have a ways to go.

Ergo....

I put forth ideas and concepts to challenge the mental process. Because you guys are far ahead in the curve. There is still more to learn. Everything that we have been taught is not written in stone. For me there exists no box. My knowledge and experience with secret societies has taught me this. There exist a curtain that vails truth, and unless you were born into, or have become, the truth is what you were taught.

I will leave you with this....

Throughout antequity 5 main cults have existed. 4 cults exist to this day.

Cults of the Sun, Cults of the Moon, Cults of Saturn, Cults of Dionysus.

Christianty is a Sun Cult, Astrotheologia
Judaism is a Cult of Saturn
Islam is a Cult of the Moon, like Isis cults, sin cults
Dionysus cults, i let u figure it out.
Cults of the Snake were mostly in south America, who knows how or where they evolved.

@Etre

Hi,

• Thanks for clarifying, I have here and there posted video without watching the whole thing, and I can see how you wouldn't want to be misinterpreted. Point taken.
• I went back through the exercise of pulling up a dozen or so of your recently posted videos, and flipping through about half of them trying to skip to the end and see if they made some sort of coherent point and not that many did. Many of them did follow the pattern of:
  a) here is some wild insufficiently explored claimed-interesting archaeological find
  b) if you watch through until the end we may or may not give you our hypothesis about what we think this all means.

In the end, I see it as my own fault if I let someone drag me into watching videos that follow this pattern, so I won't take more than a cursory look, but I'll say you're taking it a little too personally when I make this observation about the similarity of pattern of reasoning and presentation between some modern-day theistic arguments and some other modern day fringe arguments:
a) something is wild and we just think no rational educated person could really explain it.
b) therefore x, where x is some explanation that is widely regarded as nonsense.

This is a point I would make here and there, even if I had not seen those videos. They were not really ascribing to you necessarily that you subscribe to all the views in the videos. My focus here is that I'm in an atheist/agnostic forum, so it's an opportunity to share the thought with others who might see the pattern.

A lot of your other points made by you here may in some other contexts be interesting, but just come across to me here in this context as non-sequiteur after non-sequiteur, not to mention some assumptions (difficult to understand what they are based on), a bit out of nowhere, as to what we all know or don't know.

I empathize greatly with the difficulty of finding a good toe-hold for conversation. I sometimes have this in other contexts. I'm thinking you'll be able to find better toe-holds in the future. Perhaps when you post some of these videos you could state what point(s) you think are really the main take-away you want us to get from them.

@Etre

Also, maybe to take a new angle on the conversation - you posted a number of videos to do with ancient Egypt and claimed new ways of looking at the archaeology there. Can I ask if you had one or two points you were trying to make, or what it is you thought was striking? No, I'm not going to spend further time watching the videos, at least not without some improved statement of what it is that you think is important about them.

@kmaz

I have no understanding to what pathology others subscribe to. My research has taught me that most Egyptologist follow the general consensus of Egyptology. I believe that evidence exists that proves an alternate view of Egypt and History for that matter. I have well over 1k hours of documentary and source work from the past 15 years. I believe the evidence exists. I believe that many disciplines should be used in forming the bases of theories as presented to and from all forms of math that intersect the qoutient.

I know not what proxy is valued or ascribed by others within their knowledge of said discipline. Those post however invalid one may perceive them to be, they are the work of some elses genius. Information discovery will be found to any person on said level of conscious perception.

It is for those persons to make their own decision, on what they deam plausible. History has with held far more than needed from Human Consciousness.

My point is not to drag someone into some illusory claim. My point is, I too am questioned and trying to figure the whole theory of everything. I present concepts with question marks, and someimes adjectives or verbs. I leave it open to interpretation. This is because Academia is not definitive. The unknown exists.

The best proffessors I ever experienced were those that alowed the student to draw their own conclusions from what research they had translated. Not those professors who say this is the general consenus and you are not allowed to follow any paths that extend variables into irrational equations.

Codemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance ~ Albert Einstein

I ascribe myself to look at all plausible outcomes that create infinity. My areas of research are History, Mythology, Lingustics, Semiotics, Ancient History, Philosophy, Mathematics, Theology, Psychology, biology... Fine Art is my Forte. I have an excellent base to draw gnosis, create, and understand theories.

Anthropology, Archeology, Geology are weaker points for me, however my knowledge of Ancient History crosses said disciplines. They all cross! And at somepoint they have to merge.

With that being stated any person in any discipline should be willing to look at any evidence that questions the validity of the proposed or accepted vernacular. History has proven time and again that we as humans are constantly correcting our errors. And we still have not paid the respect and adoration that belongs to Nikola Tesla!

I would like to end with this historical fact. The United States was not exactly a wealthy country. In fact today we are still not. The United States is Bankrupt!! But to get to the point, the Unted States, or the States did not have the income to pay for the textbooks for its public schools. Where do you think the money came from? To be short... industry and corporations paid for the textbooks and the knowledge that went into the textbooks.

Example:

The beef, pork, chicken, dairy industries....

Thus we get our food pyramid telling us what to eat. And what did those industries do??

Injected hormones to increase production to increase profit margins.

The average age for female puberty in 1950 was between 16 and 18 years of age. The average age for female puberty in 1980's was between 12 an 16 years of age. Currently i believe the data is 12 and 8 years of age.

The key here is to look at the socioeconomic class of persons most deeply affected by this biological occurance.

If information is not controlled or filtered unto the common populous, then why has this happened.

Information is kept from the public arena for a purpose. Just like Tesla! Just like Tesla!

@Etre

You wrote:
"...My research has taught me that most Egyptologist follow the general consensus of Egyptology. I believe that evidence exists that proves an alternate view of Egypt and History for that matter. I have well over 1k hours of documentary and source work from the past 15 years. I believe the evidence exists. I believe that many disciplines should be used in forming the bases of theories as presented to and from all forms of math that intersect the qoutient...."

So, on the Egyptian archaeology, honestly, I still have virtually no clue as to what you are talking about.

What consensus on what exact issue? What alternative on what exact issue? I can't get anything really clear and specific from what you're saying and I can't get it from the videos without investing a lot of time in them (and even if I do, I doubt they'll tell me much) so I'm just not going there.

@kmaz

1. The pryramids are older than taught
2. The spinx is older than 10k bc
3. The pyramids were not used as burial chambers
4. The construction technique is unknown
5. Egyptians did not build with accepted tools
6. The pyramids are aligned geodedically
7. Astronomical alignments correlate to 10bc circa
8. Egyptian kings list goes back 20k years
9. There exists known unknowns historically
10. There exists unknown unknowns historically
11. There is correlation between S. America&Egypt
12. There exist common building techniques throughout antequity.
13. Egypt is a Greek term, Kemet is the Indigenous name.

My point is what is being taught is not factual to the historical record and what those living indigenous peoples state.

There exist many more examples than those listed.

I am going to eat.

@Etre

Great, thanks for these specifics. It gives me a much better (and much more efficient) understanding of some of your top focus points here.

Well if you would have read the post, you might have learned. Columbus was not from Italy, I believe the record indicates Genoa wich at that time was a City State of Italian penisula not being Italian in nationality. His very son stated he was Greek. Yes you are correct, however it is generally accepted that he discovered America as in the Americas. I suggest you do your research, everything stated can be proved. Your ignorance is your ignorance. I never stated I believed in the ancient alien theory. I give reasons for the post. This post was to show how information that is taught to the common consciousness is controlled. It is not my duty to prove or site anything unto you. You deligence in research is upon you, not me. I spent my time, I received my Honors. The history is there reach out and grab it, or except what you have learned or been taught. If you believe this information is not known, you are sadly mistaken. The Truth is Greater than fiction!!! I bet you believe secret societies played but a very small role in the creation and governance of western civilization. How about history for that matter. It is not about what you know, but rather what it is that you do not.

Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance~ Albert Einstein

@Etre Thank you for the response. I will delve into this subject a bit more. However, it is you making the claim and, therefore, your duty to provide the evidence to back it up. The burden of proof is not my responsibility but yours as you are the one making the claim. It is my responsibility to provide evidence for what I say to challenge your position.

@Captain747ex

That is generally how they teach. But as for me, unless I am writing an abstract or paper, I do not have to site. That is why I do it this way. If one is interested enough to learn, then one is interested enough to do the research. That is how I learned.

@Etre But why wouldn't you give your source to aid in the other person's research? So you basically are saying that as long as your not writing a paper, you can say anything you want regardless of if it's true or not? I agree that if someone wants to learn, they will do the research, but if they have nothing to reference what exactly are you going to look for? Stating your sources is what the difference is between and academic argument and a conspiracy theory. If you don't give your sources, how is anyone supposed to know where your getting the information? No, it is still your responsibility to provide evidence to support your claims, not my responsibility to go searching for what your saying. Kind of like when you make the claim that ancient civilizations state that we come from a higher source. Where are you coming from with this? We are also talking about the same people who thought the stars could fall from the sky. The nearest star, besides or own, is 4.3 light years away. How is that supposed to fall from the sky? These people didn't know how this world worked so theyade something up to make it work. I'd be willing to entertain any reliable source that says otherwise. But the burden of proof is on you.

@Captain747ex

Study the Sumerian Civilization you will find what you are looking for. Secondy many of the Great Scientist of the past were envolved with ancient orders or secret societies. 3rdly the renaissance period can be attributed to Cossimo Medici and his search for a Hermetic book, secret society, that grew into the first school of Arts for the Artistic mind..... leonardo, raphael, many more thay spawned the renaissance. However it is not taught that way. They do not teach you how these secret societies stood in opposition to Catholicism for hundreds of years. There is so much hostory here it will mak you sick. If you are not a master or doctoral student, you will never know unless you find it on your own. We owe much of our education, or instotutions there of, to the Masonic and Rosicrucian orders. Rember, no one could read except the priestly amd noble classes for thousands of years. The sumerians are atributted with creating the writting incidently.

History is a vast knowledge. The history that has been withheld from humanity will blow your mind. The vatican has kept so much hidden from humanity. You can talk conspiracy all you want. Does or has it existed, 100%. The common classes are not supposed to know. That is why only the noble classes who spoke on average 4 languages and were well versed in the Arts education. The priestly classes were well educated. Everyone else was at the mercy. Exact reason only the catholic priest read form the bible. The attendies did not. If you do not think that is a conspicacy.... we can talk for hours, or you can research, the path is there.

@Etre There is no doubt that the Medici family was instrumental to the Renaissance. I would also love to study the Sumerians. I find ancient history very fascinating. As for the secret societies, possibly. There were plenty going around at the time. But how much truth is there when their reasons and rituals were kept secret? How accurate can this information be? I am well aware that the nobility and the priestly classes were the only ones that could read. The nobility could afford an education and the priests were the closest to God to be able to read the sacred scriptures. I would also agree that it is one reason of how the church kept people frown and themselves in power. And yes, the Vatican does have an extensive library of ancient manuscripts. I would love to have at least a month to go through that library. I don't see the connection between priests who could only read the scriptures and an illiterate populace as being a conspiracy. It is far easier to control an uneducated population, but that's hardly a conspiracy. Secret societies may have, or still do, existed and may have had some influence, but I don't see that as a conspiracy. We did not come from aliens just because an uneducated group of ancients really thought we did. The universe is just too vast for us to be visited and if we were, where is the evidence? I'm starting to get what you're saying, but having a better idea of knowing where you are coming from would help out tremendously.

@Captain747ex

Im on a phone. Typing. Christianity is Astrotheologia. Religion has been used for thousands of years to control the common consciousness. The common population were not aloud to read the bible. They did not own nor could they read. They were given the god consciousness. How is that not a conspiracy? That is why martin luther broke in 1517 circa.

They were told what to do and believe.

@Etre I'm on my phone too. I don't think I have ever been on the actual website. I have no dispute that religion has been used to control the masses. But didn't Martin Luther break away from the church because of the corruption within the church? For example, didn't ha have a problem with the wealthy being able to basically buy a family member out of purgatory? I'll admit that I need to review is 95 thesis, but I'd don't think it had anything to do with conspiracy and more to do with corruption.

@Captain747ex

Sure, if i remember it also had to do with doctrine. No, martin is/ was not envolved on the conspiracy. He was only a monk. If you follow Catholic doctrine you will understand the difference between the prodestant dogmas and evolution there of. The conspiracy is in the creation and why it was and still being used.

@Captain747ex

This is an excellant theory

If you study astrotheology you will understand the creation, and how to interpret the symbolism to understand the tru meaning, esoteric. Adept knowledge not common. That is the conspiracy. The tru knowledge is hidden. Think plato's allegory of the cave. The philisophers knew. They did not believe in the gods, earth air water fire spirit. The universe.

@Etre A very interesting and fascinating video. I have heard about the theory that the Romans created Christianity in order to control the population. I hadn't gone further in depth with it, but this video is a pretty good start. I can see what you mean about a conspiracy theory on this one. I'll have to dig deeper on this one. Thanks for sharing this.

@Captain747ex

Me too...

@Aivery OK

@Aivery Okay, I was wondering WTF he was rambling on about!

Enlighten me on how I was directing persons on how and what to think??

Yep, you are one of those people who is told what to believe and how, when, were, and why what you have been taught is truth. Even, without doing your own investigation. You go blindly into that good night. If you would have read the argument, I stated that I did not pay attention to what I posted, and that I only viewed a small portion. Secondly, I did not waste your time, you wasted your own time. You made the conscious choice to watch the video after reading the title. Not I.... I never read the title till after the fact and only watched a few minutes. I thought because of the mechanism it was an interesting post. You have no one to blame but yourself. Thank you for the judgment!!

I'm not told anything. I think for myself. I don't know you, but I'll offer some friendly advice.

You need to educate yourself. I'm not saying you're dumb, but from your own words explaining yourself and your understanding of things (and insulting others), it is very clear you don't understand science or the scientific method at all.

I mean this without malice. Knowing how little you know of science makes reading your words cute. Sad that you don't respect yourself and others enough to go out and educate yourself, but cute. Like watching a 10 year old make sense of the world.

@MiltsterD

You are a fool!! I know far more about science than you believe I do. I am well versed in several areas of the Arts.

But of coarse.. Ignorance begets Ignorance!!

I think you understand academia. Truth is not Black or White, but rather a Shade of Grey. However as in Truth, we both know what is Honorable.

@Etre its what rudy gulianni said about what trump might say if he testified

@Aivery

I am aware

No you were not aware. That is very clear by your response to what was said lol.

@MiltsterD

I do not think you understand intelligence or the verying degrees there of. I am quite cognizant of verbal communication, especially when it comes to grammatical syntax. How far and what linguistic cognate would you like trace to find out just how much I understand the meaning or spirit of morphology.

so you think i just made all this up, that it is not real or factual.
???

@Etre I think you need to see a therapist and talk about stuff that bugs you.

@OpposingOpposum

thank you for your concern. the creator of this group directed the rule change at me. I was answering to her.

@Etre not think. Know.

@Aivery

Thats fair, I understand, i was just explaining my position because I made the last questionable post.

@MiltsterD

So you are a Psychologist??? You are a Historian?? You are an Academian?? You are basing your assumptions on what?? I do not have the right to defend myself?? Please milster explain to me in your infinate wisdom how and why I need Psychological help? I have the ability to break down the term Psychology and explain its linguistic roots and what it means, can you??