I recently recognized the following: Given the complexity of a woman's body with its ability to conceive, develop and nurture new life, it is more probable that woman evolved first as an asexual being and, in time, man evolved from hermaphrodites. How does this change cultural thinking?

A woman's body is designed to enjoy sexual pleasures more than a man's.

Is not a cultural change necessary?

Yes, we can learn and do the best that one can do but we never experience what a woman experiences. A woman's body is a much more complex "mechanism" than a man's. Intuitively, I feel that a woman must be in complete control at all times to optimize her physical sexual pleasuring. A man must submit to her totally.

It suggests that there is something inherently wrong with a religion in which a woman is positioned to be subordinate to a man.

Thanks. I'll add it to my reading list. I wag my head in disbelievement that I should be reading it now, at my age. Oh, well. It is better than watching the news.

I didn't become aware of the posted subject until a couple of years ago. I've lived 4 score plus 6. I looked at "She Comes First". I'm going to read it. Are you aware of it?

Oh, read the comment by LiterateHiker below. Women learn through life experiences what men have to be taught. Some men try harder and some learn more than others but we don't acquire the intuition of it all.

@SunshineEast . After 79 my years of wanting to please others, I've turned around to just wanting to be left alone to simplify my life and enjoy things I've missed and can do alone. I love solitude.

I watch considerable porn not to seek arousal but to seek beauty. I find the human body beautiful. Before skin cancer became a concern, I sought out cloth optional beaches. To see a person comfortable with their body displayed for all to see was awesome. I enjoyed the movie "Fifty Shades of Grey" because I perceived it as a story about a young woman who explored her sexuality. She was in control. I enjoy the female body, everything about it. As I've aged, there are things that I am no longer able to do. I have found that I'm still able to bring pleasure to my partner. So much so, that I am awed by it. Why? What changed? Basically, I gave more of myself to my partner for her pleasure. The more she was honest with herself and shared the honesty with me, the greater the pleasure she experienced. I able to bring her to an orgasmic state and extend its duration. I'm awed by it. I do not understand why it is so. I suspect, though, that another woman knows. Not often but often enough, I watch a girl-girl video in which there is an obvious connection between the women. The intimacy is not mechanical, i.e., "You do me then I'll do you." It is beautiful. It "blows my mind". What is the magic?

We innately seek out pleasure. As a species we find sexual intimacy a source of pleasure. We pursue it for its own pleasure. As a society we have been conditioned to wrap it in the folds of romance and the responsibility to procreate. To perceive it in a "higher plane" than pleasure. That conditioning of our innate behavior has led to the creation and growth of the pornography industry. Instead of educating our young to explore responsibly and respectfully, we continue to attempt to condition them.

The WWW gives access to knowledge and information. Knowledge and information combats conditioning. Social change occurs over 3-4 generations, about a century.

WOW! Beautiful. Just another example of how a woman gains experience in pleasuring another, in this case, a child. It seems to support my feelings that a woman brings to sexual intimacy something that a man does not. I am aware that a nursing woman receives much satisfaction in the intimacy of nursing. Thanks.

Yes, sex is sensual but it is also mechanical, knowing what do do when and how. We all go through the motions. Those who are sensual do the "right" things at the "right" time in the "right" way. We are intuitively sensual with our same sex. One "knows" what the other if feeling when they do what and they do when and how. A member of the opposite sex has to be taught. Some learn better than others.

Thanks, I look forward to reading them.

To what level of detail do they respond? How do they guide you? How proactive are they during the doing? One responder stated that she maintained an ongoing comments. Some women will guide you physically.

My experience suggests that a man does not know the nuances of a woman's erogenous areas. He cannot be expected to know. He has no means of gaining first hand experience. What a woman's needs depends upon many factors, e.g., her state of mind, the attitude of her partner, whatever. Somehow, the woman has to take control of the moment. her partner is there to give her pleasure. It is her responsibility to get what she needs. It's her partner's responsibility to do what she asked of them. In sexual matters, a man is subordinate to the woman. That represents a major change in mind set for both.

What you are saying is that most people do not have the information they need to be good sexual partners. I agree.

@MsKathleen Eh, I don't think it's all that difficult.

I suspect the problem for most couples is just a lack of communication or someone not really caring if their partner has a good time. The idea that isn't impossible for a dude sounds more like an excuse to either give up trying or to avoid getting creative. Maybe a way to deal with the frustration if things don't seem to be working for the couple.

There can be hang ups for people like ED or something but that seems different than the idea that dudes are just bad at it.

@johnfrum ED is a non-issue for most women. The penis is not the source of our enjoyment. You are right about communication being the main problem. But lack of practical information is the bigger problem. See both of my earlier posts on this thread.

@MsKathleen Sure, more than one way to skin a cat and that would be part of the creative idea. It's my understanding that the particular thing a women likes is going to very although what you said isn't uncommon.

I'd expect practical information is more available today than a few decades ago. I could see a problem with such a search being somewhat obscured due to search terms.... That or getting bro science results, maybe cosmo. Or people getting the wrong idea from certain media.

I would kinda expect the kind of dude that doesn't care simply wouldn't look much up if they were having trouble.

So far, the response has been all about "communications" which I assume is before the doing. One responder talked about on-going "encouragement" during the doing. She is in control. She is orchestrating her pleasure. Is that not what it is about?

Most women and men of my generation had no sex education whatsoever. I believe this is also pretty much true for all the younger generations. So no wonder there is a lack of communication. As an example, I got married at 17, my husband was 24. We were married for 7 years. I NEVER had an orgasm during that marriage. I didn’t even know there was such a thing for a woman. Only after a divorce, when I encountered a man who knew how to “pleasure” a woman did I learn. I know a woman who had her first orgasm at age 81! She had been married to the same wonderful husband for 54 years, until he died. Obviously, in both cases neither partner had the information they needed to have a healthy sex life. We need to educate people in this area.

I don't complain unless my partner doesn't listen or care... I have had good relationships with men who care about the experience I am having not just themselves.

Do you position yourself such that you can readily shift your body to maximize the physical contact of the moment? Do you physically guide your partner's touch? How much are you in control of the contact?

At my age, I do not want to “teach” a man what to do. Yes, I will communicate what I like and am in the mood for. If a partner does No know what he us doing, I will recommend the books I mention in my responses above.

To what level of detail? When to stroke with what level of heaviness? When and how to give attention to the nipple or clit? A woman knows. A man has to be taught. Every woman is different. One wrote that each encounter with the same partner can be different.

Exactly!

@SunshineEast Yes, that level of communication.

My focus here is upon a woman. A woman has more erogenous areas than a man. If a woman is focused upon giving directions how can she fully enjoy the experience. One can readily observe the "gamesmanship" by watching videos of girl-girl intimacy of amateur and professional partners.

This.
Plus paying attention.

Communication is good before hand but in the moment, one doesn't want to give a lot of directions. Can a man fully meet the sexual needs of a woman better than another woman or even as well as another woman?

Yes! This is not like algebra.

@Sticks48 It is in the details. It's like writing. It is all about wordsmithing. Change a word or its placement can change the impact of a statement. A woman is multi-orgasmic. What does one do to prolong her orgasmic state for as long as she wants?

Yes, about the orgasm but what about everything leading up to it? It is my opinion that there is more to sexual intimacy than the orgasm.

@SunshineEast All your comments sound like you want details about the sex performance to jack off to, just watch free porn and fuck off!

@MichelleGar1 Well said.

@MichelleGar1 Do you watch porn? There is a lot to be learned. The first takeaway is that our young are learning about sex from porn. It is scary. The second takeaway is that sexual intimacy is a beautiful, wondrous thing to see when it is shared by two people who are motivated to give pleasure to one another. There is a difference between sex for procreation and sex for pleasure. For procreation, the man takes the woman for intercourse to impregnate her. In some ways it is consensual rape. How does one give pleasure to another when they do not know what pleasure feels like to that other? How does a woman give pleasure to a man who cannot maintain an erection? Not all men are porn stars? I have learned a lot about pleasuring from girl-girl porn in which it is obvious that their are warms feelings between the women or when it is obvious that one of the participants gets "lost" in what they are doing. Most do it mechanically, i.e., "you do me then I'll do you."

@SunshineEast sure.. that’s a fair opinion.

@SunshineEast Most of the time the sex is for pleasure not thinking about procreation but procreation happens when we are just wanting pleasure. Yes, I've watched porn, I prefer to watch two men get it on.

There's a group for this type of post, I think it's called Sexual , ugh, I forgot. The originator died unfortunately about a year ago or more, she was very young and in a poly relationship.