{But, when in human history did a tribe’s ruling group not rule the rest of the tribe?}

When in human history did a tribe not seek leadership? I don't think many of us in the group are committed to ending being governed over. But governed by a system that includes the well being of everyone on much more equal terms than the westernized society receives today.

{Then, persist. We will get closer to democracy, as we test all of its alternatives,}

Is virtually the same remarks Professor Wolff makes within the various types of socialized societies around the world now. Capitalism and socialism both being experiments, capitalism is a failed system of those it virtually was designed from, based virtually on the same structure, while socialism has never been freely able to develop without interference from capitalism. And even though, most people within these socialist countries continue to support their governments.

If you take a sincere observance of the people who are protesting around the globe, they are in opposition of capitalist measures being forced on them in westernized countries, while those in socialist countries are protesting against western interference. Who have had their democracy taken from them. We can only deny this reality if one isn't aware of the dis/misinformation they are receiving.

I'll attempt to spend more time on your comment when I have time. In short though, from a first look at wikipedia, all structures turning towards oligarchy is contradictory to Venezuela. I'll argue that the oligarchy that remains there is their largest problem.

@William_Mary

( When in human history did a tribe not seek leadership? )
Tribes sought leaders and dumped leaders. See DEMOCRACY: A User’s Guide by Joss Sheldon.

Plato, a philosopher, wanted philosophers to be kings.

In your socialism, who owns what?

In my view, no one owns anything but that which they work for. Means of production based on the planets resources should be considered as a social value used in conservative means and replenished by all means as much as possible. From region to region this provides world unity in trade and equal partnership. And the means to provide for those without or less.

@William_Mary No one owns anything, even the homes they live in, the cars they drive, etc?
Say it clearly and test your support here.

@yvilletom now you've resorted to taking my statement out of context. You've managed to disregard any of my prior statements with a lack of addressing and or comparing within a sense of correlation towards negative or positive towards a genuine debate, to now changing my statements to serve only your narrative. Every time I and others attempt to discuss issues with you, this is the common social media rhetoric I've always seen from you. In your case your seemingly like dealing with someone with schizophrenia. Always attempting to dominate an argument from outside the parameter of reality, because following reality you can't comprehend that someone else's reality or opinion might be sensibly logical. Do you even have your own opinions?

You have no substantial opposing debate or remarks against my prior comments, you then resort to attempting to draw me towards other peoples work that you don't apply your own opinion to to establish a sense of correlation. You just seemingly know you can't live with my, and or others at times, opinions developed on critical thought. It's brilliant of you in many cases being I'm sure you manage to mentally confuse a lot of people as you're unchallenged by most. I imagine many on this site see you as a god. Sadly another god leading people astray.

@William_Mary Ok, don’t describe your kind of socialism. Be a loner.

@yvilletom and then there's that validating, hypocritic, rhetoric response to facts and conjecture that always follows when someone is challenged by someone to provide what they themselves can't, followed by name calling. Thank you for showing yourself. No worries though. I'm sure there isn't to many people following this post by now other than maybe those who follow my post in the shadows, who rarely participate. But they too now know the worth of your existence here. You can go back to the Politics page and be the god of see me, hear me, with little to no harm done.

My sense of socialism is written all over this group, within my post, comments, and conjecture. My use of WSWS being one of my top used sources here in which I've explained the nature of my preferred type of socialism and from within the site pertaining to myself. It's remarkably ludicrous how you would even attempt to turn such an obvious foundation of my political and social aspiring's into a negative with them all over this group, within my post and comments and time you've spent here, let alone all the times on the Politics page.

It only shows that you've come into a private group and disrespected the sense of common curtesy to use the provided resources to follow group rules and to understand what the group is about. Which also has that type of socialism written all over it in the description and 2 pinned pages at the top of the post board. SO seemingly you're here of your own agenda with no intention of being a productive member towards my agenda and narrative for the group. Constantly attacking the group owner and narrative of the group, occasionally members and their opinions, pretty much makes you just another troll that comes here to create problems. You just keep making my points for me and validating my conjecture of you. You're really more of a harm to society than myself, sadly.