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Assuming evolution is correct, do you think that if humans went extinct another species as intelligent as humans would evolve? If life exists long enough on a planet, is intelligence and consciousness inevitable?​

nicknotes 8 June 24
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6

I would hope not. Humans have done enough damage already.

The worry is have we exceeded the "tipping point" for climate change.

5

I think so. We see lots of intelligence in other animals besides humans. Birds and dolphins that are social and cooperative and talk, use tools and solve puzzles. Really our only distinguishing characteristic is that we can pass vast amounts of knowledge from one generation to the next with the use of recorded language. Writing is what really makes us special.

I recall a movie with Shaka Zulu describing the written word as magic, words that stay. What you said reminded of that.

Yes...the written word is tremendously powerful.

4

Intelligence - the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills

My dog does that. People and their assumptions.

mt49er Level 7 June 25, 2018

Does your dog have a job? Or do you work for him...buying food, feeding him...picking up his waste.....If you do all the work I would say he is very smart.

3

These questions are unanswerable, at least with any authority, I take issue with the introduction: "Assuming evolution is correct". Yes, evolution is and always will be a "theory" but so too is gravity. Our intellectual capacities will be greatly impaired if we do not go forward embracing the assumption of evolutions validity even if it, like gravity, is a theory of how things are and how they got that way.,

A "theory" in the Scientific sense is very reliable.

3

Probably not. The conditions that allowed humans to evolve along the path we've taken to get where we are I believe we're fairly singular and unique.

Caveat:This statement does not include a value judgement about our path being a superior path to that taken by other species, just a different path).

Statistically, its highly unlikely that the conditions necessary for a parallel evolution could occur. Our nearest primate relatives would need to be subjected to similar environmental, genetic, and selective stressors for a parallel evolution to occur. They would have to react to the stressors similarily, similar genetic drift would have to occur, and they would have to react to environmental stressors in a similar fashion.

This does not mean that a higher level of intellectual attainment is not possible by another species, just that another independent human species is highly unlikely.

t1nick Level 8 June 25, 2018

Interesting assessment ...

3

Intelligence surrounds us, but I'm not convinced that we are all that intelligent, we're just a bunch of stupid monkeys with guns 😉

And with the ability to use them.

Sometimes it does seem as if the feeble minded are running the country.

3

I would hope they would be more intelligent than us. We are kind of disappointing.

Disappointing with so much potential.

Sometimes it does seem like we are dumbing down.

3

I think humans delude themselves with the notion of being the most intelligent organisms on Earth.

@Matias this reminds me the opening to hitch hikers guide to the galaxy with the dolphins haha

@Matias I have no idea, but some think the octopus might be.

@Matias Thank you for your input.

So what species is more intelligent?

@Matias I guess it depends on how you define and measure intelligence.

2

I think our planet still has enough time left before the sun goes super nova to give rise to another intelligent species should mankind go tits up. The conditions on this planet are ideal for organic life, so I can't see why the odds wouldn't be pretty decent for some species to evolve higher thinking skills.

I agree.... I believe in the power of evolution.

2

You don't need to assume that evolution is correct, it's a demonstrated fact, also I don't think we have enough info to make a conclusion about another intelligence replacing humans, I don't think it will be the case but it could still happen

Tulio Level 3 June 26, 2018

I agree...

2

I would think that a species (or several) will inevitably be dominant, but I suspect that they will only be as intelligent as need be to outsmart it's prey (and potential predators).
Given enough time, it may develop intelligence that would allow it to create complex machines, to better their survival, or maybe even leave the earth's atmosphere and set foot (or paw) on another planet (or moon or whatever), but I don't think that's a forgone conclusion.
Furthermore, I think the question (and answers) is a bit loaded towards the human perspective and how we define intelligence and consciousness.
As has already been mentioned; some cephalopods (octopus, squid) show great intelligence and some skills/characteristics that humans certainly don't have.

scurry Level 9 June 25, 2018

The human hand with the opposing thumb seems to be an important adaptation to be able to build machines.

@nicknotes Sure, I would agree that that helped, but not only humans have an opposable thumb and not only creatures with opposable thumbs are smart and/or capable. Case in point: Octopus opens jar =>


Sure, that octopus can't build a rocket and fly to the moon, but whatever metrics we judge it against are human based. It may think we're idiots for having ever left the oceans in the first place. And given enough time who's to say the octopuses might decide to rise up and take over the world (and moon)?

It is so amazing that such a non-human creature , the octopus, can be so intelligent. @scurry

@nicknotes Right? It's all a matter of perception, too. I think we don't always see other creatures actions for what they are. We pass it off as cute or clever, but not intelligent.
I'm pretty sure my friend's cat is smarter than them. LOL Has them well trained to do everything a cat could want. LOL

2

Whales, porpoises, octopus , great apes (Koko), and some tool using birds could all become a dominant species.... better question if if they had indeed come to be the dominate species, would they destroy the planet the way man did? (Yes I know I'm speaking in past past tense...)

Reminded me of planet of the apes....

2

It is hard to make an evaluation since we only have one example of higher intelligence evolving.

It is impossible to know if symbolic higher intelligence is very rare or a common stage of increasing complexity. We could only find the answer by accumulating more data. Either discovering an independent intelligence separate from us on the Earth or finding ET.

Remember that Neanderthals were also intelligent beings and they are now extinct. Humans replaced them.

@nicknotes But they did not evolve independently nor did their "intelligence" evolve independently. And they appear not to have reached the level of symbology.

There is a lot we don't know about Neanderthals. But Science will prevail.@marmot84

@nicknotes Sure like how the interbreeding with our species happened. Basically I"m saying they are us except for 600,000 years and a different continent. (But I'm likely at least 2% genetically Neanderthal myself. In fact I have many Neanderthal characteristics. Like a brow ridge, big bones, etc.)

2

Maybe. Strength, size, and fecundity could also make another species become dominant.

"Fecundity"...the ability to reproduce in great numbers could be a key factor. It takes 9 months to make a human, and multiple births are rare. A species that could reproduce in a much shorter time frame with multiple births could have an advantage.

2

If humanity reaches the consensus that intelligence on par with humans is inevitable and will arise from some other species, that should give us even more of a reason to stop harming our environment. Eventually, it could lead humanity to leave Earth, especially if it becomes clear that intelligence in another species is emerging.

bingst Level 8 June 25, 2018

Good point.

2

Intelligence is expensive evolutionarily speaking, and not necessary for survival of a species. Intelligence can offer an evolutionary benefit but I think humans have surpassed that point into diminishing returns and madness, and that is because nature /evolution tends to set up feedback loops that push these developments into absurdity - it is because of that, that intelligence is probably an inevitable development, but without the physical ability to capitalize on that intelligence it would go straight to madness. Like if a dolphin was highly intelligent its body would be a torturous prison, being incapable of doing much it could dream up. But with evolution working on so many levels it is fairly certain another intelligent being would evolve with a physical body to accommodate it. So, in short, yes, but not important nor necessary.

Extraordinary analysis....good points.

2

A difficult hypothetical question to answer. What interests me about your proposal is, who would replace us as the dominant predator. Humans are the dominant predator at the moment (we just have different methods of killing). The circumstances of our extinction would be a huge factor. A cataclysmic event or the destruction of the honeybee? If humans are destroyed vegetation and habitat will return. If for example the tiger becomes the dominant predator as a result will it set out to wipe out every other species or will it be content with simply filling it's belly? ?

@Matias the earth will do perfectly fine without us as cultivators. We have cultivated other species to extinction; "a different method of killing". ?

Actually, the honeybee is an invasive species that does more harm than good. Especially for the rest of the other bee species and pollinators.
The honeybee is good for honey, I suppose.

@JynxQi good for flowers and fruit trees too ?

@SimonCyrene Good for humanity and nature.

You raised some interesting questions. I hadn't thought about humans as predators. I'm a vegan.

1

There are a lot of different traits that could conceivably give some future species an evolutionary advantage, depending on what the environment eventually turns out to be. Remember, evolution based on natural selection just continues the characteristics that are conducive to a species' survival - the ones that have the traits that help them survive do, and they pass on those traits to their offspring. I can see where consciousness and intelligence could become important survival characteristics once again, but I can also see a lot of other things that would be useful too. You really can't predict it, but I certainly don't think intelligence and consciousness are the inevitable result of future evolution.

zeuser Level 9 June 25, 2018

I am reminded that roaches can survive in a radioactive atmosphere while humans cannot. If we blow up the world with nuclear weapons the roach may end up replacing us.

@nicknotes You could make a credible argument that this is already happening. Heh.

Yeah...roach world...coming soon. @zeuser

1

Maybe reality is made out of consciousness, and life-forms and everything else in the physical universe are extensions of that universal consciousnesses. In that case the issue is moot.

Imagine that a cataclysmic event wiped out all organisms, and that a trillion years later intelligent life-forms arose anew. From the perspective of consciousness itself there would be no time lapse at all—just a smooth continuation of awareness.

Time is a function of awareness. According to physicist Carlo Rovelli in “Reality is not What it Seems”, time does not exist. (chapter 7)

If there is no consciousness time is but a blink of the eye.

1

First, are humans actually intelligent ? It seems to vary wildly among individuals. I have no doubts about evolution. If you were to believe the Christian "miracle" there was nothing, a complete void, sometime about 6-8000 years ago. All of a sudden we had a universe, of which planet earth was an infinitesimal speck. That we co-existed with dinosaurs ! If we we to go extinct the rest of life would go instinct with us. But the building blocks for life would exist as it did perhaps 400 million years ago, which is how long it would take for "pond slime" to evolve into something resulting our species. It's so easy for me to reject the "bible story" as it doesn't bother me to say that "evolution allowed me to become a human after millions of years and that I am evolved from the pond slime" !

Doug13 Level 4 June 25, 2018

There is no doubt that the Bible Story of Creation is a fable.

1

krill,plankton and amoebic dysentry come to mind

Certainly some unusual choices for evolution to "top dog."

1

Probably so.

bingst Level 8 June 25, 2018
1

I hope so.

Gohan Level 7 June 25, 2018
1

I may be splitting hairs here - but I believe a species "More or less" as intelligent as humans would evolve, yes.

I mean... claws and sharp teeth are great and all, but I can't think of anything in nature as deadly as a longbow.

SirJet Level 5 June 25, 2018

Animals can survive in the wild. On their own humans have great difficulty in the wild. Perhaps an animal can evolve to take our place.

0

krill,plankton and amoebic dysentry come to mind

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