The issue that's most important to me is the church/state separation one. That's what drew me in to begin with.

Charley Churches act as if their worldview/godview is the default position. And they never give up trying to impose it on everyone else.

When they try to prove the bible is true by quoting the bible.

Ken is a 66-year-old Christian psychologist from Portland, Oregon. His first message:

I really like your playful, creative, giving being. You're more "spiritual" than most religious people. I'm curious how an "atheist" can live that way.

After two long Skye sessions with him, I was fed up.

Ken,

I do not want to spend another minute being grilled by you about why I am an atheist, religion and spirituality.

Yesterday a man I used to date, Rich, dropped by as I was kneading bread. With a master degree, Rich is highly intelligent and an atheist. Unlike you, Rich immediately saw the insult in your first message to me:

"I really like your playful, creative, giving being. You're more "spiritual" than most religious people. I'm curious how an "atheist" can live that way."

I told Rich you could not understand how I can have loving kindness without attending church and believing in a god. "I get asked that by Christians all the time," Rich replied.

I would never corner Christians and demand that they explain themselves. Yet you and your compatriots think this is acceptable behavior. "I enjoyed the couple of conversations we had," you wrote. It was not fun for me.

Christians who don't know me often demand, as you did, that I explain:

1. Why I am an atheist.
2. How the universe began (as if being an atheist automatically makes me an astrophysicist). "Nobody knows," I reply. "Science is advancing more every year."
3. What happens when people die. "Nobody knows," I reply.
4. What is "spirituality."

You may think your questions were unique. They were not. Rich and I both find being grilled by Christians rude and tiresome.

I suggest you see a therapist to discuss your bias against atheists.

Yes, I am perfectly capable of "agreeing to disagree." How else do you think I live peacefully in an area dominated by Republicans and Christians?

Nothing is new in that argument because the bible is totally static and that makes it impossible to come up with anything new that would be classified as "evidence." On the science end of the supposed discussion there is nothing to grasp at all. There never was.

Apologists continue to post on how you cannot touch their god because he exists in another universe. This is why we cannot prove or disprove him in any way. God travels from his universe to ours without leaving any evidence whatsoever. He is sort of like a fish jumping from one fish bowl to the other, then back again without anyone knowing or seeing. The best the fish argument shows is that some of us have taken the bait.

Yeah, I'm pretty ho-hum on the issue myself. But as long as there is religion, the debate is necessary as an awakening tool for the indoctrinated.

No.

As long as there are new generations of believers and non believers the discussion will continue. It's all fresh for my son.

I disagree there are new arguments all the time. Every time a new and undisputable thing is discovered about life and the universe the religious reinvent how their god fits in. It's marvelous how creative the religious have become in redefining what ambiguous ancient texts actually mean. It's almost as if god couldn't give us a clear message and needed help from self appointed PA's to help us understand.

I don't tend to get bored. But in any case, I am not bored by the debate because I'm always learning something new. For instance, I learned just a couple of years ago that Moses is widely considered to be legendary. I already knew the Exodus never happened (no archeology has ever supported it, despite the massive motivation to find confirming evidence, and archeologists have given up years ago), but I had assumed during most of my life (as an atheist) that Moses had some actual historical existence. Apparently not.

I am fascinated by the way human psychology, mythmaking, literature, culture, attitudes, beliefs, etc., work, and when I find that I assumed something to be true that turns out not to be true simply because I'm swimming in religious ideas, symbolism, and myths in our culture, I want to know about it, figure out why that might be, and share any insights I have with others.

I am also fascinated with scientology, cults, UFO myths, etc. I feel like if I can identify how people's lives get swept up in such beliefs, I can defend myself against them and help others defend against them as well. Plus I am always interested in what is actually true, not what I want to be true or what others may want to be true. Critical thinking is hard work and takes continuous practice...so it is never boring to me.

Just for shits & giggles....why don't we as a group rent a fair ground where we invite all the major sects of religion. They each get an ALTER custom built with the most flammable dried wood available. Each gets 3 days to petition their GOD of choice to light the fire and prove once and for all who is truly the one True God...be it God, Allah, Satan, Ishtar, Ra, etc. On the 3rd day...we agnostics & atheists can simply light our ALTER with a match and finally settle the argument that MATCHES are the one true Gawd. LMAO

I hadn't thought about that, but I do know that my go to podcasts are Thank God I'm an Atheist and The Thinking Atheist. They have a balance of humor, insight, information, and I always feel grounded after listening to one of these podcasts.

Very bored.
I was really angry when I realized there never really was a proper debate where a theist actually made a valid point, and the real conflict boils down to fighting zombie lies that evil old men have brainwashed young children with.
It's mind-numbing and depressing.

Aron Ra made the right choice when he put up a video series on Youtube so he wouldn't have to repeat himself for ever.

Why would you continue to keep up with these things? Let it go, live and enjoy your life.

Pretty much. The seriously tiring debate is the constant definitions/differences between an agnostic and an atheist. Fucking hairsplitting at it's finest philosophical uselessness.

I only engage face to face anymore especially if kids are within earshot.

Whilst the moronic and Mormonic system continues there needs to be a debate to unpack that superstition.

Yep, been there done that and there is no convincing the believers--total waste of time.

Yes, very bored by it. The futility of the endeavor of trying to talk sense to people who are immune to logic and reason drains away one's energy.

Sounds like my daughters’ take on women's rights … haven’t they always had them?

Well, if you get tired of the theological aspect of religious debates ..follow it into politics. That’s where I’m at, and that’s where the current battle is..

Not only that, but Flat earthers, moon landing deniers, Creationists, etc. the whole lot.

Not tired of the debate but the movement sure is slow.

There's nothing to add. An agnostic knows there never will be. No new knowledge. So drop it and just live your life.

It’s probably just best to let it go and move on. Why waste your only existence debating people whose mind is gone? It can get mentally and emotionally draining.

navel gazing with a magnifying glass looking for that tiny little piece of lint.

Seems like lots of contra movement at the moment. I don’t know the stats but I understand there is growth in people declaring no religion and flocking toward the mega churches and Islam.. Looks like the traditional modalities are the losers and a social polarisation occurring. In Christian terms I suspect it would be deemed as the separation of sheep and goats in preparation for The Rapture.