My religions professor is very adamant about convincing us atheists are just as religious as everyone else. What are your thoughts on that?
The argument can be made.
Atheism (also called the "Unaffiliated" ) is counted as one of the top 3 religions of the world because it is also a belief that God does not exist. [worldreligionnews.com]
I suggest it is not saying Unaffiliated is a religion but third in the context of religious affinity.
If no religion were not included there would be a massive undeclared data set which would skew the figures, therefore the numbers must be included and so include the identified non-affiliated grouping.
I tend to interpret this as how committed we all are to or belief systems or perspectives which give us meaning or makes some kind of sense for why we are here or what being alive is about...
For me, I'm ok with not knowing ... My purpose for for being alive, my motivation for wanting to do anything, is all based on contrived ideas, although some of those ideas inspire me, they still are not real, merrily ideas for the purpose of utility...
Pardon me but I beg to differ. You are the one that determines what is the meaning in your life. Any contrived notion about anything, ceases to be contrived when you take it and make it valid for your life. Unfortunately, this also lends itself to be the basis to believe in a god. Oh well, such is the nature of our relationship with the meaning in our lives.
@Rodatheist Thanks for your input, I am going to come back to this... I am tired just got in from work.
I’m curious
I could see what he’s trying to say here
Could you ask him why and post his answer?
My guess is that he’s saying we are a group
Of some sort but that in itself makes us a society
See what he says and post please
Thank you
I just posted an update with screenshots of the notes he wrote.
I think that he is trying to push the old fallacy that an Atheist belief that there is no god is equivalent to belief in a god, because both are unprovable.
@PiperMckenna Where is that? A new post?
@PiperMckenna
Where’s the update post?
@Fernapple Except that the burden of proof is on the proponent of the existence; no one is obligated to prove a negative.
@Rodatheist Just so.
Ohferpetessake, AND Bah Humbug! Is this course costing you anything? I hope not!
I think like anything, a religion can be made out of anything. The funny thing is I’ve noticed a false equivalence drawn between religion’s adherence to doctrine and an atheist’s adherence to science. Often in an effort to square the notion of atheism as a religion, some people seem to assert that a god is to a religion what science is to secularism. If that be the case then you have to point out that if they (religious people) believe ANY scientific findings be accurate or true, having propped science up as the God of Atheism, then they’ve broken one of the first commandments Moses laid forth in Exodus. If they feel that is not true, then they concede that believe in scientific findings is not a “belief in science” but an acceptance of the findings of the study of the world we live in. At this point the question is no longer, “Is the the belief in a god to a religious person the same as belief in science to an atheist?”. The question is now, why is your belief in science not a religious expression whereas you believe mine is? The answer is usually because, “You don’t believe in a god”. Simplistically, it’s as if to say, “You don’t believe in my God, so you must believe in yours.”
Maybe your professor meant "spiritual" or "philosophical" or "thoughtful" but I can also see there could be a use for the word "religious" if by that word it is meant that an atheist can feel a connection to his/her creative source, be it nature, family, history, society, or all of humanity.
I am atheist, but I feel connected to the past, present and future, the nature around me and am very concerned with making sure I'm acting in accordance with what I have learned to be right and just, compassionate and respectful.
I feel I am on at least equal terms with those who follow a religion - some say humanism is a religion - and that's okay with me. No supernatural deity is needed to feel a connection and adherence to religious tenets.
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
I disagree since Atheists do NOT necessarily worship anything,.
Yes, we do follow and have a personal 'relationship' with Logic, Reasoning and Reality, etc, BUT, imho, that is by no means actually worshipping those things.
To 'worship' in the true meaning of the word one first NEEDS an object/Idol/Icon upon/towards one must direct their 'worship' and adorations BUT atheists do NOT actually worship such things, Yes we see sciences, etc, as being something good and edifying BUT not exactly worshipful.
Plus, the Faithfools like to lump Atheists in with Satanists and the like BUT that is their convenient way of doing things, there are great differences between Atheists and Satanists, etc, simply because Atheists, like myself, ARE those who ARE A- ( meaning simply) WITHOUT, and Theist ( meaning simply) a God/Gods, ergo Those who choose/decide to live WITHOUT a God/Gods or anything similar such as Satan, etc, etc.
So, WHEN people finally stop thinking that Atheists are followers of alternate forms of belief, as per the propaganda fostered by the Religions, and realise that Atheists and Atheism IS NOT a system of belief/s then and only then will our detractors cease to 'bundle' us in with the Pagans/Heathens etc, that they have always falsely accused us of being.
@Triphid how is their grouping of "us" together any different than the grouping you are doing of the "faithfool"? they are both born of general ignorance about the respective sets of beliefs or lack thereof. I am certainly familiar enough with orthodox hinduism and nastika hinduism (buddhism, jainism) to know that faith is an issue in abrahamic belief sets and not vedic. the scientific method actually originated in Hindustan long before ancient greece. evangelicals and ignorant westerners think that all eastern religions are the same and all beliefs that involve "gods" use faith as a tool in bhakti. they don't. but they would actually have to learn something to figure that out.
@JeffMesser Well those are my personal opinions gained from well 50 years of life and over 7 years of studying for me ThD, a Doctorate in Theology and Comparative Modern Religions btw,
And, in my opinion, should the Faithfools ( Followers of Xrstianity and any of the 3 main Abrahamic religions in particular) wish to deem us as Pagans/Heathens and the like then 'turn about is fair game' for does not their bible tell them, " What you give so shall you receive in return,"
@Triphid so you belittle their beliefs and canon, but then for support you "cite" scripture? I'd need to see your CV before I accept you as a legitimate source.
@JeffMesser What, you want to see my 3 Degrees, Doctorates I may add, in Theology, Philosophy and Ancient and Dead Languages PLUS my 7 Bachelors Degrees as well.
How about the other subjects that I'm also studying for Degrees in, do you want those as well?
If that be so, then come to my home, you'd be welcome there that I can assure you of, and I'll ferret them out of the pile of papers, etc, that I have stashed them away in, then you CAN see them in PERSON.
@Triphid I couldnt care less about your degrees dude. good for you. now exhibit some of that knowledge and say something "knowing" about vedic religions. because including vedanta or buddhism with the abrahamic religions is like mixing oil and water.
@JeffMesser I have absolutely NOTHING against Hinduism, etc, some of their ideologies actually make sense whereas the Abrahamic ones, complete with their copious contradicts make about as much sense as pumping Petrol ( gasoline to Americans) onto a wildfire in the hope of extinguishing it.
Many parts of the teachings of the Buddha are truly wonderful things for any person to ascribe to and try to live by, I like them immensely, but not so the blatant contradictory supposed teachings ascribed to in the Christian/Abrahamic systems of belief.
@Triphid like what? Ayam brahmasmi? Vivekachudamani??
@JeffMesser I do vehemently disagree with ideology of the Caste system, it IS very divisive and discriminatory in my opinion.
No person/s should deliberately place or be placed above another merely because of their 'social' rank/standing, after all, we ARE all members of the same species are we not?
@Triphid why? because brit xtians came in and called them heathens? with the gokul the hindus had a literacy rate over 50% in the early 1800's ... and after the so-called "modern" xtian brits came in and destroyed temples and mosques that number dropped to below 10% 2 generations later. The caste system is an antiquated tool of the past that is obviously a human rights dilemma ... but with the puranas and brahmanas the hindus are able to update and revise their canon unlike other belief sets. the caste system seems like some rather low hanging fruit for a multi-doctoral theological academic like yourself. why don't you bust out some sanskrit so I can marvel at your knowledge!! jagat mitthya brahman satyam prajnaman brahman tat tram asi.
I’m positive this isn’t where your professor was going with it, but the tiny grain of truth from the above sentiment is this: There are multiple nontheistic religions that some atheists practice or participate in ritualistically. So there is such a thing as religious atheists, but atheism isn’t what makes them religious by a long shot. TST Satanism, Buddhism, Taoism, Dudeism, Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are the few that come to mind. Most of them were created specifically to poke fun at monotheism, or to argue politically for the rights of atheists in a religious world. I enjoy all of the above, don’t go to any meetings about them, but I find them to be fulfilling anti-religions or allegorical philosophies to soothe some of the indoctrination of theism.
Though there may me some so-called Atheists that participate in those beliefs you have mentioned, there are, imo, far more Atheists, like myself for example, that HAVE and want NO religious beliefs what-so-ever since Atheism simply means by definition ' One who chooses/decides to live WITHOUT a God or any God like figure and the belief and worshipping of the same, etc."
To Xrstianity ANYTHING NOT affiliated with their system/s of belief is dubbed as PAGAN or Heathen, to Islam, for example, they are dubbed as being Infidel. Each belief system HAS its very own 'label' for non-believers/atheists, etc, and they use it as regularly and readily as they possibly can merely to belittle, disparage, etc, those who do NOT share in their beliefs.
So please, do NOT try 'lumping' ACTUAL Atheists in with the likes of other alternate forms of beliefs/religions, We, Atheists, ARE NOT by any means religious followers of ANYTHING.
@Triphid not lumping us in with the religious, my point is precisely that the closest we can get to religion are these institutions that specifically lampoon religion. I can see why a religious imbecile could get confused though, given the many even simpler matters that elude them entirely.
@Wurlitzer But are not such things as Satanism, etc, merely religious type beliefs any way?
Actual Atheists, in my 50+ years of existence as an Atheist holds to and has NO beliefs in anything remotely of a religious nature, no belief in an afterlife, heaven/hell or anything in between, we submit to no Supreme Being be it God, Satan or anything else. That is the TRUE meaning of the term and word Atheist.
I don't believe, preach, try to convert, have no ceremonies, and the only book I carry around is simply something to read when I dine out. I am antisocial and have a beard. The humidity here is as thick as clouds. Since all of this applies to me, I must be a God. (And I would probably be angry at people groveling at my feet.)
Depends upon his definition of ‘religious’. Academically atheism doesn’t fall into a religious category any more than politics or sport does.
There is more concordance with sport and politics however with their doctrines, texts and iconography than atheism which lacks all of these
Only in the sense that atheism, like religion, is based on an absence of evidence. Hence, religion requires faith in order to maintain one's belief whereas atheism doesn't.
The existence of a god does not stand to reason. The non-existence of a god does.
Bigots blame others to pretend victims are bigots also....just stare at this xian bastard...take notes so you get a good grade and say nothing to him....and be proud you are an Atheist in a necessary closet
Religion says believe it. Science says prove it. Atheism can be said to be a 'religion', inasmuch as they say No God, No How, No Way; but can't provide proof of their assertion. The Agnostic is more scientific minded, and points out that there is no proof of the existence, or non-existence of supernatural deities.
Inaccurate.. Seems both you and ‘the professor’ have some learning to do...
@davknight Although there are some atheists who claim to know there are no gods, most of us, the vast majority I would say, identify as agnostic atheists. And, those who claim to "know" are not being intellectually honest with themselves. I am Agnostic in that I acknowledge that I cannot "know" everything in our universe, or outside of it, and whether some being we would call a god exists. I am an Atheist because I see no reason to believe that such a being exists; and, therefore, I do not believe that one, or more, does.
The believer has to proof the existence. The atheist reaches her or his conclusion using reason.
I would ask him his definition of "religious". Over the past several decades "religious" has come to mean anything done or believed with fervor. If that is his definition, he is correct. If not, he's full of academia.
That is also the essence of my reply.