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22 14

Greenland's ice sheet melting seven times faster than in 1990s

Scale and speed of loss much higher than predicted, threatening inundation for hundreds of millions of people

[theguardian.com]

On the PBS Newshour last night, a scientist compared the loss of volume to the sea as "2000 elephants-per-second" !

FearlessFly 9 Dec 11
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22 comments

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12

It's already too late.
Most people don't even realize that.
Yet.

That's not me being "negative". That's simply reality.
We've already passed the point of no return.
There's no way to "fix" this.
Those in a position to do anything remotely helpful, won't.
It's not in their best interests. It's not profitable for them.
They refuse to accept that they can't continue on this way.
They refuse to accept that WE can't continue on this way.
We're fucked.

It is said reality does not cease to be reality just because people are uncomfortable in what it shows.
I have posted a piece from the National Geographic about birds and how cats are killing billions of them. In the end the writer stated: "If we give up on seemingly unresolveable problems, the world will grow more miserable, not less so." I agree and agree with your premise. I have a paper I just downloaded that says basically what you are saying. if you want I can send it.

This world is already miserable. I haven't "given up", BUT I also accept the inevitability of the eventual outcome.
What needs to be done, will not be done.
I saw the National Geographic piece.
We are in agreement.

We may have already passed one tipping point, that is, the collapsing of the West Antarctica ice shelf.
It will be decades before it collapses, but once the collapse starts it does not uncollapse. There is another tipping point that we are approaching, maybe in about 10 years, and that is the melting of the permafrost. There is a flipping from the heat reflection of the melting ice over the permafrost to the heat absorption of the underlying permafrost, full of CO2 and methane, which becomes self-sustaining past a certain point.

@Heraclitus I am of the opinion that the sink holes in Kamchatka Peninsula signaled a tipping point a while ago.

@OwlInASack I'm kind of hoping for some dormant bacteria to be released from the melting permafrost. I've read a couple of different articles about it.
I'm more convinced than ever that we'll be the architects of our own extinction.
We're nearly there.

@KKGator The piece I have did not come from National Geographic.

@JackPedigo I understood that. Thanks.

@OwlInASack Yes, I know. Tipping point means a point of no return regardless of what we do. It's like something tipping over and falling. It does not un-fall.

@powder Not the entire collapse of the West Antarctica glaciers and ice shelf. Some climate scientists estimate this could take over 200 years for the collapse to complete. But, with amplifying feedback mechanisms it is likely to happen sooner. It is massive and when it does it could add several feet to sea level rise in and of itself.

@BirdMan1 I've seen video of the Kamkatcha sinkholes and I certainly understand why you might think so, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we have reached a global tipping point yet. Hope not, since tipping point means it is irreversible and we are all in deep peanut butter regardless of what we do.

10

But, but, but....the Orange Idiot has gutted the EPA because it is all a hoax! He said so!

grrrrrr so much to fix and so little time

Those damn Chinese did this hoax he said - you have to be impressed by how well the hoax is wreaking havoc.

The only hoax regarding him is his having become president!

7

I'm pretty skeptical about real change until massive fucking destruction, crop failure, etc. The rich have made themselves as insular and wealthy as they can. They can move. Time to cut off heads.

It's already too late.
"Real change" isn't going to happen in time to prevent what's coming.
Once the really bad stuff starts happening, it'll be too late to do anything
about it.
There won't be any "safe" place for the rich to move to.
Their time will run out, just like everyone else's.

No matter how much wealth and money the rich have stashed away it won't be worth a teaspoon of shit because no-one can eat money when there are no longer crops to harvest, air to breathe and water to drink.

@Triphid the science fiction syndrome. Many humans are going to hang on, if they don't start lobbing nucs. Things will just be really fucked up like death and dying accelerating and surpassing the plagues.

@Beowulfsfriend not quite SciFi since we ARE polluting the rivers and oceans at really high level and rate, pumping Carbon Dioxide, Carbon Monoxide, Sulfur Dioxide, etc, into the atmosphere art rates and levels almost as bad as the were during the Siberian Traps episode that occurred millions of years before the dinosaurs evolved.
Sulfur Dioxide rises right to very edge of the atmospheric shell and combines there to form a Reflective style blanket that blots out and reflects the heat and light from the sun which then causes flora to die since it can not perform photosynthesis without sunlight, plus the Sulfur dioxide eventually forms into Acid Rain which also kills ALL plant life and sterilses the soil as well as making water toxic and killing marine life into the bargain.
If you don't believe then I suggest you do a wee bit more research.

@Triphid I totally believe things are falling apart. I don't believe the humans in charge will do anything until it is way late - probably too late. As far as research, the biggest danger, in my mind, is a release of gasses in the oceans wiping out much of the Earth's living creatures. By sci fi syndrome, I meant the people don't believe til it occurs or think some unknown element of science will save us at the last moment.

@Beowulfsfriend WE are the ONLY ones who can save ourselves and the planet, and in my opinion and observations for the last 40 years, we ARE close to, if not at, the tipping point.
And once the delicate balance of nature and climate, etc, is thrown out there is NO return point.

7

we need to go renewable now not in ten yrs no more drilling or pipelines
this is my soap box rant
plastic needs to be replaced by hemp in every way possible
farming needs to be hydroplonic with fish in the water below 2 crops at the same time less water not pesticides
clean the oceans
feed cows algae it produces less gas
plant trees lots and lots of trees
stop nuclear plants the waste lasts too friggin long
young ppl need to make a plan for life fewer kids less driving and couple nights a week meatless

7

The scientist were accused of exaggerating..and they claimed that they were minimizing. It looks like they were minimizing the affects of climate change.

Excerpt; That means sea level rises are likely to reach 67cm by 2100, about 7cm more than the IPCC’s main prediction. Such a rate of rise will put 400 million people at risk of flooding every year, instead of the 360 million predicted by the IPCC, by the end of the century.

Q&A
How is climate change affecting the Arctic?

Sea level rises also add to the risk of storm surges, when the fiercer storms made more likely by global heating batter coastal regions. These impacts are likely to strike coastal areas all around the world.

“These are not unlikely events or small impacts,” said Andrew Shepherd, professor of earth observation at the University of Leeds, one of the lead authors of the study. “[These impacts] are happening and will be devastating for coastal communities.”

Greenland has lost 3.8tn tonnes of ice since 1992, and the rate of ice loss has risen from 33bn tonnes a year in the 1990s to 254bn tonnes a year in the past decade. Greenland’s ice contributes directly to sea level rises as it melts because it rests on a large land mass, unlike the floating sea ice that makes up much of the rest of the Arctic ice cap.

About half of the ice loss from Greenland was from melting driven by air surface temperatures, which have risen much faster in the Arctic than the global average, and the rest was from the speeding up of the flow of ice into the sea from glaciers, driven by the warming ocean.

You are reading the same data as I am but I think the danger of clathrates and melting permafrost is not being properly accounted for.

6

Yes, Australia is on fire. We have not had any rain for I don't remember when and our happy clappy prime minister is doing nothing, because he thinks that it is god's will. A lynching is on the horizon.

Yep, while the Hillsong version of Emperor Nero sits, mumbles, dithers, frets over his NEW changes to the Religious Freedoms Bill that they are putting to Parliament Australia burns, Volunteer Firie's families are going short on money because P.M. Happy Clappy refuse their pleas for financial assistance on the grounds that " they wanted to be there," and merely offers up 'prayers and thoughts' which about as much use as chocolate Teapot.
Don't lynch him, instead drag the ENTIRE Parliament out by the hair, give them a shovel, rake and a fire hose and MAKE them help fight the fires on EXACTLY the terms and conditions, etc, that the Volunteer Firies have to endure.

"Religion spoils everything."

6

We do not need more technology!!! We need an honest re-evaluation of what is happening with our life support system. Anthropogenic means human caused. We seem to forget that simple idea.

5

And our large country does nothing due to the stupid Republican Senate that will agree with and maintain our miserable excuse for a president.

5

Black carbon, or pollution soot that settles on the ice and absorbs heat, is exacerbating the melting of Greenland.

@Bushshaker Curious. What do you think NOAA has lied about?

5

Mother nature, the one and only unseen force, is actively trying to destroy the vermin who are trying to destroy our world, unfortunately, that is mankind! In my heart I rather hope she succeeds!

5

Yet Climate Change is a Chinese Hoax, per Trump. We're going to destroy our descendants' world at the rate we're going.

I think the ONLY climate Humpty tRumpty ever worries about is the Financial Climate surrounding his wealth and investments, otherwise, everything else means ZILCH to that Orange-crested Buffoon.

4

At this point, it appears (to anyone really looking), that there are multiple forces at work, all racing to annihilate the species that has no checks and balances, and seeks to selfishly destroy all other species.

Incurable deadly diseases, rising seas, Increasingly intense storms/floods/fires/droughts, loss of drinkable water, destruction of food supplies and agriculture, loss of our fellow earthlings on which our life depends - directly, or less so.

Pick one ! The world, without us, will recover, and likely thrive.

3

Please don't get me wrong on this, because I really do get, and have for a very long while that The Earth is warming on an exponential state.
However. Tales of the water levels rising due to the, well a whole bunch of things melting. Is something I have not seen. I live in Florida, and our average tide levels haven't risen at all.

I do understand that there is more of it than that. I just wanted to make that point to the doom sayers for the last 30+ years about how everything coastal will be under water in x amount of time

a) anecdote is not data 😮
b) I'm hoping you realize that what you call "doom sayers" includes a lot of climate scientists ! 😛

@FearlessFly So. The water levels are rising here in Florida, even though the measrurements indicate other wise? And have not the 'doomsayers' not been saying that by this day and age that I should be under 20ish feet of water. Hmmmm. Yup, they have. And as far as Climate Scientists. Quite a few indeed have predicted for a LONG while that most of our coastal regions would be under water even as soon as a decade or so ago. Again, don't get me wrong, i have no quarels with the fact that climate change is real, and needs to be addressed. But to the levels of what I would call, again. 'Doom sayers". their predictions have not come to fruition by a long shot. Also. Just because 'a LOT' of Scientists 'predict' something, that doesn't make it so. Do you know how many Scientists predicted that the result of an atomic explosion, would take the world with it. Or how many predicted that anti matter would create a black hole that would envelope the entire earth. All I mean on that is saying that a 'bunch' of people think a certain way, does not make it true.. oh and since you like emotes so well. here are a few right back at you. 😛 😮 😀

[miamiherald.com] Rising sea levels are already affecting Florida.

2

We are past the point of no-return. NOTHING humans can do to stop it.

Only thing we can do is get ready: move away from the coasts, learn how to farm the tundra.

?
your [citation needed]

2

If you live in a low lying area maybe now is the time to move to higher ground.

2

Evolutionary style population control of the human animal. People heat up environment, environment reacts kills off all people then atmosphere goes back to normal.

Word Level 8 Dec 11, 2019

Exactly as it shold be. With no natural predators to prey on us, nature needs some mechanism by which to cull our numbers. If it's not climate change or some other natural disaster, it would be a global pandemic.

Sooner or later, something has to kill us off in large numbers to restore balance.

1

I found that the following video provided an improved perspective of where we are in terms of Earth's climate. Earth has been much warmer, but when it was, North America had a huge in-land sea.

We might be able to survive a major sea-level rise. The real issue is that as millions are displaced, resources stretched thin, and pollution knee-caps ecological diversity, will we be able to resist WW III?

Gradual rise as has been occurring for last centuries. Threat now is loss of crops to colder clime. That has started as a result of the Maunder Minimum of the sun. NASA recode the temp change. The sunspots this year were almost nonexistent. Supposedly leaving a 400 year warm cycle. BTW what is the CO2 percent of atmosphere? But, who knows for sure. Large banks, big money etc have not stopped investing in areas you are talking about. So, whatever is happening will take a long time.

1

we are fucked

1

Look on the bright side: we all die anyway!
Makes me glad I brought no children into this world!
Maybe technology will somehow bail us out.

1

So 2000 elephants per second, African or Indian? Average adult? Look at some of the stuff from Siberia and pretty much agree with KKGator. I do what I can.

0

Most of climate change is NOT human caused. We are in a de-icing period. These have happened about every 125,000 years during the at least the past 1.5 million years. Recent assessments are the oceans were about 30 feet higher during that last de-icing than now. (Ice cores tell the story.)

The difference is that humans have accelerated the rate of change. Humans are NOT the cause of the change. This period will last at least 10,000 years. So get used to it.

These kinds of changes have happened millions of times in the past 700 million years everywhere on the planet. Year to year variations in weather that result in species death, and openings for new species.

The only reason we are all like really freaked-out is because we are here now. And there are way too many humans on the planet. They are everywhere. And in way too many places they should never have been.

What can we do about the change? NOTHING! We are past the point of no-return. We have NO control over the changes. No matter what we do the melting will continue.

What can we do:
migrate away from the ocean shores.
Spray birth control drugs over the whole planet.
Learn how to farm the tundra
and so on.

0

What’s the big deal? We can make more ice. My freezer does it all the time.

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