Evaluating the Truth of the New Testament.
The New Testament writers learned an important lesson from the Hebrew Scriptures. They learned about truth and lies.
How does the OT define Truth and Lies?
Here are some examples.
Abraham lied to Pharaoh when he said Sarah was his sister.
Genesis 12:18 (New American Standard Bible)
Then Pharaoh called Abram and said, "What is this you have done to me? Why did you not tell me that she was your wife?
Later Abraham used the same lie on Abimelech.
Genesis 20:2 (New American Standard Bible)
Abraham said of Sarah his wife, "She is my sister " So Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah.
Isaac also used the same lie.
Genesis 26:7 (New American Standard Bible)
When the men of the place asked about his wife, he said, "She is my sister," for he was afraid to say, "my wife," thinking, "the men of the place might kill me on account of Rebekah, for she is beautiful."
Jacob lied to Isaac when he tricks his father into giving him the blessing for Esau.
Genesis 27:20 (New American Standard Bible)
Isaac said to his son, "How is it that you have it so quickly, my son?" And he said, "Because the LORD your God caused it to happen to me."
It was really a lamb that he was eating rather than wild game.
Genesis 27:24 (New American Standard Bible)
And he said, "Are you really my son Esau?" And he said, "I am."
But it was really Jacob lying and disguising his skin with the lamb’s hide.
There are numerous lies. If you are well read in the OT you know them.
The Hebrew Midwives lied.
Rahab the Harlot lied.
David lied numerous times.
Jehu lied
Moses lied.
The point is that all these lies were never punished, they were usually rewarded, and God never complained about these liars and their lies. The lies were always justified because they fit into God’s plan. God was not offended.
The lesson that the NT writers learned, IMO, is that a lie is justified if it promotes their theology. God will not be offended by their lies.
God doesn't mind a lie as long as it's for a good cause.
Take that into consideration when you evaluate the truthfulness of the New Testament.
Christians Lie to serve their Master.
IDC
So you don't care.......why not?
So why not just scroll on by without making a comment?
@Joanne Joanne, how do you not understand that anyone is free to reply to any post on here they care to, and you should STFU?
@IamNobody, @AnneWimsey @IamNobody, @AnneWimsey Wow, that was a bit harsh! I never said he did not have the right to comment. I only wondered why, if someone does not care about something someone posts, that they feel the need to comment at all; and, perhaps, make someone feel like they made a foolish post.
It seems to me that you need to take a fucking chill pill.
@IamNobody. Thank you. I guess I get a bit protective of some people's posts because I know what it was like trying to work my way through all the things I had been taught.
I had to come to terms with the fact that the Bible is not the infallible word of any god and the need to express my thoughts as they came to me was very strong--even though to some I am sure what I had to say would seem almost silly because they had never had to go through that same process.
Who s their master?
The Christian "Master" is the God who does not exist.
@nicknotes Seems to me that the real answer is money. They know there is no god.
You are correct...@dalefvictor
And their lies have reached the highest level of our government who now use them as a matter of fact.
Yes...I think the official LIE COUNT is over 15,000 for Trump.
Yes, slander, slavery, sex trafficking, adultery, theft, high crimes & misdemeanors are nothing in bible's or church's little rule book. It's not "God". It's corporate business. I don't know if there is a god, pretty certain there is not. the way religion tries to manipulate god is pathetic & transparent.
Get Over it. And stop reading the Bable, why not volunteer at a soup kitchen or shelter?: exercise, new friends, & something real to think about......
I see you replaced your avatar photo....very flattering photo.
@nicknotes thank you!
It is all about protection and pimping out. This latter one is good for wealth and position building if used properly.
The Christian Clergy leads the life of Princes while they squeeze the cash out of ignorant poor people who believe their lies.
concise. well said
Well at least they told the truth about a talking donkey
Without there being one in the bible I doubt if there ever would have been any "Francis the Talking Mule' movies.
I think an extraordinary amount of time is given on this site to talking about the OT and NT....both are works of fiction, no further analysis required.
Other than the fact that the bible has a tremendous affect/effect in all aspects of society and it needs to be comprehended for that reason.
I was trying to show how Christians who have come on this forum and use lies to mislead people
@jlynn37 "comprehended"!!????? Good luck withThat!
@AnneWimsey Agreed. Poor choice of word perhaps but I couldn't think of another.
@altschmerz in my experience it’s a waste of time and effort and I only engage when confronted directly with a zealot! Luckily that doesn’t happen too often.
@jlynn37, @nicknotes I just don’t engage with them if they come on here, it’s a pointless exercise because they are not open to reasoned argument and are only here to disrupt and quote scripture at us. Their eyes and ears are closed to our point of view no matter how well reasoned and thought out, because their dogma trumps any logic we use.
@Marionville I agree completely.
Good advice...@Marionville
I disagree. I think it is important to know what it is the Bible so when someone starts spewing garbage we know it well enough to respond. Chances are, in such a situation, the atheist will know the Bible better than the believer.
@Joanne What I meant was we already know the absurdities of the bible because we’ve all studied it already, and yes we can counter any believer’s argument with skill because we probably know the bible better than they do, but do we really need to make these same arguments here amongst ourselves?
@Marionville I think in a lot of these cases, these posts are by people who are still grappling with things; and, quite possibly, have no one else to talk to.
My journey from believer to atheist took a little over a decade of things going around and around in my head; and I really could have benefited from a place where I could put it out there and get some affirmation.
It would have been harmful, and it would have hurt, to have been dismissed--or even worse--mocked because others were beyond where I was.
One of the interesting features of the Bible is that it doesn't make its main characters out to be flawless heroes. They are very human and the stories around them show how they can pay for their mistakes. One example is Jacob who cheated his brother out of his inheritance and found out the pain suck trickery inflicted when it was done to him by his uncle.
I'm not sure there is any prohibition on lieing in the Bible. The prohibition on bearing false witness seems to belong in a judicial setting.
Agreed. Many books of OT and NT fall into the canon of transcribed oral narrative and stand alone literature.
With an interest in early literature it’s a shame that many people can’t read these collections as stand alone literature. I mean, how delightfully gloomy is Lamentations. It could have been written by Marvin!
The joy and beauty of The Song of Solomon and that marvellous apocalyptic romp by the author called Matthew.
Just read it all for what it is and take preconceived ideas of God and Jesus out and consider them either central or peripheral characters.
Great literature doesn’t need to be tainted by religious interpretation.
I disagree....the Bible treats lying in a negative sense but then has its main characters lying. Jacob had some rough moments in his life but was he was rewarded and is one of the patriarchs.
Yes, but does NOT one of those vaunted '10 Commandments' clearly state " Thou shalt NOT bear false witness?'"
Yes. I said that in my first post. I said I thought it was meant for judicial hearings.
He said this, she said that, they said these other things over here, etc. And that's what it amounts to. We don't need the knowledge of one testament to know the other is bullshit. They're both full of enough of it independently.
It is all BS but sadly billions of people waste their time,and money believing its lies.
You say, "Take that into consideration when you evaluate the truthfulness of the New Testament.
Christians Lie to serve their Master."
Speaking to a group of Jews, Jesus says, “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44).
Given certain circumstances police can lie during interrogation.
Frazier v. Cupp, 394 U.S. 731 (1969), was a United States Supreme Court case that affirmed the legality of deceptive interrogation tactics.[1]
The fact that the police misrepresented the statements that Rawls had made is, while relevant, insufficient, in our view, to make this otherwise voluntary confession inadmissible.[1]
The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance." Isaiah 19:25
The "Lord" of Israel was Egyptian?
As to Osiris of Egypt:
But he did not just represent death in the physical world, also rebirth or what you may call being born again.
a) John 3:3
Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
As to Osiris of Egypt:
He was married to his sister Isis, who was goddess of the sky and love. Isis and Osiris had a child Horus, who is believed by many to be a reincarnation of Osiris.
Song of Solomon 4:10 How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride!
John 14:9 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Osiris is usually identified as the God of the afterlife, the underworld and the dead. He is also called the King of eternity, King of the living, Master of souls; He who appears as ram in Mendes, and the Sovereign of Amenti.(1) Another curious title that you will find for Osiris is the “Morning Star.”
This same Morning Star of Osiris found in the Book of the Dead, appears to be the same Morning Star that we can find in the Book of Revelation, where Saint John says, “I will give him the Morning Star (Rev. ii. 29).
Lucifer (UK: /ˈluːsɪfər/ LOO-si-fər; US: /-sə-/; 'light-bringer' is a Latin name for the planet Venus in its morning appearances, and is often used for mythological and religious figures associated with the planet. Due to the unique movements and discontinuous appearances of Venus in the sky, mythology surrounding these figures often involved a fall from the heavens to earth or the underworld. Interpretations of a similar term in the Hebrew Bible, translated in the King James Version as "Lucifer", led to a Christian tradition of applying the name Lucifer, and its associated stories of a fall from heaven, to Satan. Most modern scholarship regards these interpretations as questionable, and translates the term in the relevant Bible passage (Isaiah 14:12) as "morning star" or "shining one" rather than as a proper name, "Lucifer".[1] wikipedia
John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."
"beast" in the book of Revelations is metaphor for laws of government. Mark as in give a mark for identification: mark of the beast means identification for taxation and government control .
Written almost 2000 years ago in metaphor and riddles not always understood.
It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name. Revelations 13:16-17
The uneducated with no interest in mystical traditions and the esoteric may regard Ancient Egypt as little more than a place of pagan worship, strange hieroglyphics, and monuments erected by thousands of Hebrew slaves. But those more learned, especially those having undertaken the initiative rituals of Freemasonry, will see a link between the Egyptian metaphysical tradition and modern mystery schools, of which Freemasonry is one. [gaia.com]
Lord of host Lucifer the devil leading the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshippers in the establishment of the mark of the beast 666 identification for taxation and government control. No justice for the innocent, more children can be trained to speak and act abused to wrongfully prosecute innocent people especially those that oppose there Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worship "my teacher made me touch her p.p ". Rape the original indigenous inhabitants of their land call it America call them such as Mexicans, Indians and native Americans. Federal courts versus klu klux klan Masonic lodge governmental corruption organization et al Wichita Falls TX and versus state of Texas et.al Amarillo TX
I think it is evident that the writers of the Bible borrowed material from older sources to spin their yarn of a god-man who saves the world. It's all BS.
@nicknotes The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance." Isaiah 19:25
Not plagerzing, because it recognizes sourse as Egyptian. If an Egyptian god thingie wants to use its Egyptian stuff with its "inheritance " then it is not borrowing
Both old and.new testaments are complete and total bullshit not fit for even quoting to support or justify anything, much less to confound people into subrepticiously tolerating or justifying the existence of a god. There are no gods. Ergo, who the fuck cares if a non existing figment of imagination "is offended" or "complains" about anything or "minds" about something.
I agree..."the Greatest Story Ever Told" is really "the Greatest Fraud Ever Perpetrated on Humanity"