Just like me hairdresser!

Some of us do...

In Nursing, duuuuhhhh....is the er re something wrong with you? There is definitely something wrong with your attitude!

@AnneWimsey Merely correcting the above, lighten up.

My last ex was an avid Hhunter, and you are 100% correct!

It's also kind of like politicians and elected office, those that most want power are the same people who should least be trusted with it.

That is a scary thought, but I don't doubt it's truth..

@TomMcGiverin it’s true . Cosmetology is 2 yrs associates degree .

I'm sure there are many good cops, and don't disagree with that description. But, clearly, too many aren't held to that standard.

@Amzungu No shit and that's the problem. Too much good ole' boys bullshit practiced..

Agreed.

You bet your ass! Dats de fact, Jack!

Exactly! Screen at all the cluster B personality disorder types the dangerous fckers... your psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists, etc.

California's strict gun laws came about under RR for just that reason. Black men were arming themselves. They would carry long guns which felons could own back then, and hand guns for those without convictions. Scared the shit out of Reagan and the republicans.

@glennlab Why am I not at all surprised? The NRA and right wingers are all for everyone being armed with military style weapons and more, as long as they're all white, conservative Christians...The Reagan years are the gift that just keeps on giving (in toxic ways) to America...

Constantly? That's a bit excessive even as a devil's advocate. We deal with plenty of enraged and violent patients, but we have far better de-escalation skills. Which only supports the point of requiring greater education, as cops do often deal with more significant threats. We learned those things in school. I get that it would be easier to just shoot them, but that's frowned upon in our field.

@Amzungu Forgive me, I have yet to read the book on devil's advocacy. Read the manuals. Read the books. Excessive though it is, that's the kind of shit some people might say. I'm just looking to put us through the pressure cooker so that I can prepare myself and anyone reading for debates with people.

You make an excellent point to consider: In a case by case basis, how do other professions deal with violent or mentally perturbed people? Especially without weapons.

@FuckReligion I can totally respect that. I've been saying for quite some time that maybe cops could benefit from ride along nurses, to help provide some of the education they don't seem to be getting effectively on the job. So often I see theise tragic situations resulting from escalation of something minor. There are many effective methods of de-escalating anger, fear, and hostility. And maybe the public would benefit from a less threatening presence as well. A sort of street beat mediator, if you will. The vast majority of situations don't involve active two way shoot outs. Police officers should be held to a higher standard of being able to maintain control over their own violent tendencies, and learning better de- escalation skills certainly couldn't hurt in that regard.

@Amzungu That sounds like a great idea. Some cops would be too macho and egotistical to agree to it or benefit from it, but it might reach enough of them to be worth the effort. Same with social workers riding along with the cops, as some of them serve on crisis teams at hospitals with their share of mentally ill, violent patients and they are constantly practicing de-escalation.

You've got be either joking or have hiding under a thick blanket if you believe that "those in the medical fields don't have their lives/life constantly threatened by others."
So, at guess, I'd say chances are you've never worked as a nurse in a hospital A&E Department onwhat we nurses used to " Freaky Fridays and Savage Saturdays" then.
If you had, then you'd have regularly seen nurses, male and female, Doctors male and female struggling with very violent patients, get left and right to their faces and bodies whilst trying their damnedest to administer treatment/s to patients either doped up out their minds or drunker than skunks.

I am a nurse practitioner in hospital medicine who also happens to be the head of the workace violence committee for my hospital. I assure you, the employees in our locked psych unit would vehemently disagree with you.

@Druvius, As I previously explained: Pressure cooker and whatnot.

@Triphid, Got it in one, kid. Apparently, my disclaimer didn't do my intent justice. I never pretended to know about either of these professions. Also, pressure cooker. Um, what else...

Ok ok, basically my point is to call upon you, my fellow agnostics, skeptics, orwhatevers-I'mnotgonnalistallofthefancylabelshere-butIguessIalreadyscrewedthepooch-becauseIspentmoretimetryingtowritethiswordmash-thanIwouldhavestatingthethreeorsolabelsthatwereleft . I wanted arguments purely from the cerebral, objective discourse side of town.
My point wasn't to devalue or insult either profession or people within them in any way.
My bad, I should explicitly have a huge ass disclaimer which details all of this next time I do a one sentence reply.
But this is what I'm talking about, that, as I gracefully weave through the subtle pot shots, I find the beauty in what y'all sayin'. These are the arguments I need. YES! Yeeeeeeees! Lend me your strength Agnostic.com comunity. And together we will make a 5th of November that shall never be forgot!

Also, can people read this so I don't have to keep typing out: Pressure Cooker with no context. Sheesh.

@FuckReligion Mate I've lived and worked in 'Pressure Cooker' situations for years.
I left nursing and joined the Railways, part of that job involved being in the Derailment, Breakdown and Collision Crew.
Derailment - a Rail Wagon or a part of a Freight train comes off the rail, usually miles away from the nearest Railway Depot and in the middle of nowhere, you HAVE to go and put it back on the rails, sometimes you are dealing with either a wagon with 40 tons of High Explosives teetering precariously on the edge of a rail embankment, or, 20,000 litres of HIGHLY inflammable liquids in tankers, a Diesel-Electric Locomotive weighing in at 130 tons,
Breakdowns - a Diesel-Electric Locomotive has either 'shot' one of its 10 or 12 pistons through the top of the cylinder OR ha caught fire and 5,000 litres of Diesel Fuel are blazing away also in the middle of nowhere. then comes the very worst job of the worst jobs,
Collision - Some rank IDIOT has decided that he/she can BEAT a 3,000+ Freight Train traveling at 90 - 100 kilometres per hour across a Level Crossing.
No way Jose, that train will take between 1 and half kilometres to 2 kilometres to come to a FULL halt with ALL 3 Braking systems jammed on full.
The vehicle ends up as a pile of twisted torn scrap metal, the occupants, usually, are not much more than a mess of blood, guts, bone, bits and pieces, spread throughout the vehicle and the surroundings which WE have to clean up and put into body-bags for the Paramedics to cart away.
So please, do not talk to me about 'pressure cooker living' I've been there, done that and still have nightmares from time to time of the scenes I have been presented with at such disasters.
Just try to imagine, IF you will, what you'd feel like when you arrived at a Car-Train impact site and the first sight to greet is that of a child, about 2 years of age, still in its car safety seat, hanging from a tree branch with its tiny arms and legs literally torn off, its head completely shattered, brain matter splattered everywhere and pool of blood on the ground underneath the tree, with parents and siblings turned into little more chunks that look like RED jam spread everywhere and anywhere.

@Triphid Okay, alright... okay. Look, I thank you for sharing your experiences. There are terrible tragedies in the world that I have not yet begun to fathom.
But, BUt, bUt, BUT, Butt, ,
There seems to be a terrible misunderstanding between us.
I never said "pressure cooker living". I never said the word "living." The word "living" was not said. There was no "living." I feel like George Costanza for Satan's sake. You ctr-f living and you will only find two places, your reply and some other guy's response to the OP, this reply notwithstanding. The term, pressure cooker, was previously contextualized in another reply of mine. I did not say "living."
Whatever you're reading into it, I did not mean. And maybe that's my fuck up.

You know what - you know what... I'm gonna post my own thing about it so that you can understand what I meant. You can ALL understand. It's going to be called, "The pressure cooker of Agnostic.com."
Can I do that? I'm going to do that.
This shit's getting out of hand! I need some drank!

@FuckReligion Whatever.

@Triphid But... b-b-but I worked so hard to reach a sensible... yeah, you know what, whatever indeed.

A nurse I used to work with just switched jobs. His first day at his new job, he had a death row inmate tell him it was his goal to kill a nurse before he gets put to death. Just sayin'.

Because here in the streets of America, the lives of black men have no value, and, as well, in domestic policing the cops, unlike the US military overseas, don't have to worry about international law, being treated as war criminals, or repercussions from foreign governments. In the US, most cops that murder unarmed black men will never face serious consequences and they feel they have the full support of the public and government behind them to treat black and brown men as the enemy of them and the public. That is the how and why of the ROE being so different on the streets of America compared to a Middle East war zone.

The cop that killed George Floyd was making way more than any RN I know.

@Amzungu and how much was he making? Because the starting salary for cops is garbage.

@Emerald I realize that, but so is the starting salary for nurses. He was making over 100,000/yr. Maybe they get bonuses for excessive force?

@Amzungu I am a nurse practitioner and I have been a nurse. So I'm well aware of the salaries. But in the Atlanta area, nurses and cops both start around 40k. Not worth risking one's life for sure.

But cops get pensions after 20 years of service that nurses can only dream of..

@Emerald So you're supporting my point, both have similar starting salaries, both are charged with peoples safety, yet cops require far less education and training. You would think that the fact they are risking their lives would dictate an even bigger need for education and training to do their job well and keep themselves and the members of their community safe. An associates degree isn't all that expensive, nor is licensure and continuing education. But it would likely go a long way in addressing the problems that currently exist in our police departments. I guess it's the accountability that would be too costly.

@Amzungu Hear, Hear, when I started as a nurse back in the early 70's my FORTNIGHTLY pay was, after tax, $183.90 for doing 8 hour shifts.
Female nurses on the same Grade as me were getting an average of $15 - $20 per fortnight more than I was and a 'newbie' Cop was raking in $298.50 per fortnight.
When I left nursing with my 5 Certificates in hand I was still receiving LESS than the female nurses and way less than any Cop.
For the shit, crap, threats, etc, etc, nurse have to face each shift they are still way, way underpaid when compared to the wages 'Pork Chops' get.
Try getting ANY 'Pork Chop' to clean up the blood, guts and vomit at an accident or in an A&E Department, you'd have more luck getting a fish to breathe air and live out of water.

@TomMcGiverin my hospital had a pension up until covid. Then they used the crisis as an excuse to get rid of it.

@TomMcGiverin, @Amzungu i never disagreed with your post. What I'm saying is that the police academy is never going to pay for that, and if the individual police cadets have to get the education on their own, they will demand higher salaries, which departments won't want to pay. There will then be shortages, just like in nursing.

@Emerald I agree with your analysis on that. Most taxpayers won't support higher taxes on the state and local level. Also, tho not surprising, it stinks that the hospital used the crisis and costs of Covid to ditch the pension. Just shows that when it comes to workers, most hospitals are no different than corporate America, all about the bottom line...

We pay teachers shit and require a ton of qualifications. Pay is irrelevant. Also, do we really need to incentivize becoming a cop for people?

I'm sure they would, but fuck that, I say. If a single mom can find a way to foot the bill or take on the debt, and likely make less in compensation than many of them, they can find a way to foot the bill, too. I don't carry a gun, but there are many things I utilize that without proper education and understanding of appropriate use, would easily kill you.

@Druvius I haven't been here since the beginning of America..

@Amzungu And when we make the tiniest mistake, even if it doesn't reach the patient, we get in a ton of trouble. Am I jealous of cops right now?

@JeffMurray Oh yes, accountability is strong in our field, though a necessary part of what keeps us at the top of the bar of most trusted professionals in the country for years now.

I have more respect and appreciation for nurses than I do for docs or cops. They get less respect and less money most of the time.

@altschmerz I'm with you. Never understood the antagonism between them. I've worked with some outright amazing physicians who are not only skilled but truly good humans, and always held their nurses in high regard.

@Amzungu I think the nurse managers have a lot to do with it with the culture they create and promote and how hard they go to bat for their staff.