Agnostic.com

13 4

I know that Americans are very fond of ALIENS and the possibility of them visiting us. Why do not, at least some of you, not ask how Humans came to be on earth.? {See below} Then you would know how small was the chance of humans being here. After that add the chance of the same things as below happening on another planet , the time to develop enough intelligence and resources to travel [and get back] , the chances of collisions in space etc, etc. Only then can you start having intelligent conversations about Aliens. The paragraph below came from another forum received and answered in the UK [The Nurturing STEM -(science Technology Education Maths)] The question which had to be intelligible by 10 year olds was

HOW DID HUMANS COME ABOUT ON THIS PLANET Please try to devise your own explanation and test it or rate it here or just question my answer which follows.....

All atoms have been around from the last Big Bang Zillions of years ago. Atoms can join with each other by wizzing electrons around their center parts(nuclei). This is called a chemical bond. Or they can join temporarily with weaker electro based attractions and repulsions. It is this electron behavior which give whatever material you want to talk about its inherent[within itself] properties. Further changes of material produce new materials and rotting old ones.
If the atoms, which are in raised temperature and fluid contact motion for long enough, some of them in small quantities will find themselves splitting from their groupings and then become capable of reproducing themselves. It really does need a long time and changes which help this process like volcanoes and climatic processes . This process of reproduction continues for many hundred of millions of years to become more and more complex [Maybe you could help to sort out what must have happened] until it all ends up with YOU. You too will keep on evolving but in a more controlled way.


Please test this out on some 10 year olds - I have no access to any - and then write a better account? Or start fresh to better my explanation.

Mcflewster 8 Feb 11
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

13 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

I hate aliens. Especially the invasive ones in my garden such as garlic mustard. Then there are the Africanized bees that escaped from Brazil & are now in the USA. Also Asian carp.

2

Humans are observably related to other species on Earth, so if humans came from elsewhere, the whole known animal kingdom must have come from the same elsewhere.

TRUE but the mutations would not be identical in the evolution process. I think there might be some weird ones. It is the living advantages that make the mutated animal survive - speed, long neck from eating more leaves etc so maybe they would be the same out there and the weirdness would not be too great. So throw away all your alien pictures.

0

It would be funny if some aliens came to earth and offered us help and tech.

Imo, they'd probably take one look, shrug their shoulders and then go back home shaking their heads.

Logically, there are only two possible reasons aliens would visit Earth. Firstly for scientific investigation. Integral to the possible purpose is that they would have found some way to beat the light-speed barrier or there would be no point in coming here if what was discovered could not be returned to the home planet in a timely manner (thousands of light years away). Secondly, conquest...more likely in that they might have no intention of returning home.

2

In my opinion it would be the absolute peak of totally unbridled human arrogance to think and believe that ONLY this tiny chunk of rock called Earth would be the ONLY place in this vast Cosmos where life evolved.
May be NOT life as we know it, but life any way.
For example, we know that the 'building blocks' for this planet came from a massive cloud of dust and gases some billions of years ago so WHY would NOT the same or similar thing occur elsewhere in the Cosmos?
The building blocks of Life as we know it most likely arrived in the deluge of Comets, Meteors, etc, that bombarded this planet as it was forming just as did water, etc, etc.
So, WHY would it NOT happened elsewhere also?
Countless civilisations/cultures throughout the millenia that humans have been around share similar/like legends, etc, of what we blindly choose to call 'Gods" who visited them from the Stars and yet those civilisations/cultures had ABSOLUTELY NO means of communication or interaction.
So, HOW did they all seem to arrive at the same or similar legends/conclusions?
Before you DISMISS it out of hand, I ask you to actually sit and REALLY THINK about it first.
As to EVOLUTION, imo, there IS NO control involved in NATURAL evolution it is merely a kind of hit and miss scenario at best. i.e. the change/alteration that works best in any given situation survives and the failure/s die off either quickly or slowly.
Imo, Humans, Homo Sapiens, have ONLY survived thus far because,
A) we have the abilities and, in some cases, the intellect to adapt OUR surroundings, etc, to SUIT ourselves, and,
B) we actually breed like viruses and spread out where and when ever it suits us, sadly though we also DESTROY almost everything and anything in that process as well.
Though WE may THINK of ourselves as the "Pinnacle Of Evolution," are we NOT merely the MISTAKE of Evolution that has gotten completely out of hand?

@Triphid I hope I am not showing arrogance. I agree with you there will be life somewhere. Evolution IS however uncontrolled and so everything is random including the climate and other conditions where the mutant continues. " Mistake " requires a plan and purpose for it to go wrong. You have some religious ideas which need to evolve ..... in the nicest possible way of course.

@Mcflewster Random = a scenario where errors/mistakes can occur but no planning is needed nor required for them to occur.
For example, A man can start to build a house but knows nothing about building, has no plan/plans but does so anyway, ergo it either works and he has a house OR it fails and he has little more than a pile sawdust, cut pieces of timber, etc, etc, imo, that is a somewhat SIMPLE explanation of how Evolution works.
As to my "having some religious ideas which need to evolve," imo you ARE most definitely "Barking up the WRONG Tree" with that one mate.IIn actual Fact and Truth I see absolutely NO sign, etc, of anything that can be even REMOTELY classified as Religion/Religious NOR Intelligent Design in Evolution.
Evolution, for the most part, imo, has ALWAYS been a kind of " Hit and Miss Affair," i.e. a kind of case of " If works do NOT f**k with it let it run its course, if it fails then let something else give it a go" attitude for want of a better and more fitting term.

@Triphid To use your analogy I see it more like this. A man plans to build a house by himself . Unknown to him another builder with a grudge against him does not want him to succeed. Every night this second builder gains secret access to the site and removes one or two bricks from strategic but unobvious positions, weakening the structure. To avoid blame the bad one stops his weakening and allows the house to be finished and LOOK strong. The next heavy snow the roof of the house collapses inwards.

The bad builder is in fact completely random yet invisible cosmic particles that come down from space and knock out sufficient of the building blocks of all animals making them useless for reproduction and our brave house builder gives up and eventually perishes .

There's no 'error' involved just random action taken by nature.

@Mcflewster Nope, can't swallow that Good versus the Bad and the Ugly concept in relation to Evolution and Evolutionary Processes, sorry, since it sounds a wee bit too much like a biblical based scenario of God versus the Devil imo.
Friend, IF that be your concept/s of Evolution/the Evolutionary Processes then, imo, we should ALL throwing the towel here and now while totally accepting that the Earth is merely 6,000+ years old and IS the only place in the vast Cosmos where life actually lives BECAUSE some strange, unseen, unknowable Supreme Entity DEEMED it to be so.

0

yeh, you might lose the first para, for clarity

@bbyrd009 I am just trying to remove unrealistic thoughts . Join me?

5

Why are Americans the scapegoat for ignorance in this post? I have traveled and can say with certainty that ignorance exists everywhere. Does life exist in other places besides Earth? Almost certainly. Does it look anything like the human species? Doubtful. On this planet one can find organisms in unexpected places such as in superheated water in the depths of the ocean, these organisms are known as extremeophiles. [oceanservice.noaa.gov] The forces that are required to create heavier atoms most commonly occur in stars. Thus we are made of stardust. I understood most of this before I was a teenager, I am not alone in that regard.

MizJ Level 8 Feb 11, 2021

@Gwendolyn2018 he regularly bashes Americans

@redhog Well I guess some of us are fortunate enough to not need to tear down others to build ourselves up.

@MizJ The 'Aliens' will be made up of the same atoms which have literally universal inherent properties so they are unlikely - if they reach the reproduction stage to be much different that us. ( I almost added "Thank God" there!

@MizJ I am simply trying to get you consider the reason why Humans exist on Earth BEFORE you concentrate on Aliens. The reason why Americans stand out in their preference for Aliens?? Well I have never tried a survey on it so I cannot say I know but I would SURMISE that it is because it makes good entertainment which in turn gets us to think about "what goes on out there?" Arriving as an Alien inside someones' stomach was certainly good entertainment !

@Mcflewster You claim to have been a science teacher, the answer of "how" can be found in evolutionary biology. If you need a "why" it's unlikely you will get it anywhere besides religion. Good luck with that. In re to your likely xenophobia it is unlikely that will change when one is an octogenarian.

@Mcflewster "Aliens Will be...." so one gets the impression here that BECAUSE you say it shall be SO then therefore IT MUST be so?
You SAY that you were once a Teacher of Science then how, when and by whom, may one asks, were you elected to be the New Supreme Entity known as God?

@MizJ Hey, I'm almost in the 70 year old bracket, well not all that far from it, and I love that the things I was taught decades ago as being ' the Facts and nothing but the FACTS," are being changed, altered and sometimes even torn apart as we learn more and more.
Jeez Louise, I cannot conceive of how anyone else can actually live 'Ostrich-like' with their head buried in the sands.
Some say that "You can't teach an old dog new tricks," well, imo, that may be the case with some old dogs, but definitely not this one.
Blimey, I'm even learning NEW things from my 7 year old nephew, Henry, these days and enjoying doing so as well.
Perhaps we might remind @McFlewster that it IS REALLY MUCH, MUCH easier to BREATHE when one's head is NOT buried in one's own sandpit.

@Triphid A few years ago I took College Biology. I was fortunate to have an older professor that pointed out a couple of changes from 30+ years ago. Some learn new tricks, others don't.

4

Its been pretty well explained how we got here.. given the distance it is perfectly reasonable there could be life of some form on some or many planets we wouldn't know. Why would they know or care we existed on this speck that earth is..? Or be alive and active at the same time and just happen to find us? Humans have only existed for 1/2000 of the time the plannet has been here and only developed the technology to see things right near us in the past few hundred years.. Why would we just happen to be in the same time and place as another life that couod also travel and seek out other life?

MsAl Level 8 Feb 11, 2021
1

As an Alien being I take exception to everything you said or inferred.

Earthlings..... so ignorant.

Funn E!

1

Love how you call out Americans like we believe in anything. My solution is to make kids watch all 3 Cosmos series. The one from Sagan followed by the 2 (so far) from Tyson. As they both explain it better than I do. And all of my nieces and nephews have seen it and understand it.

@redhog Good solution

2

When do invisible radio waves and other electro magnetic invisibilities get involved? Then we can bring in the gods easily enough.

The cosmic radio and microwave background left over from the big bang as well as those produced by neutron stars can cover the explanation for those.

Er, we ARE surrounded by these 'invisibilities' of which imo, you seem so haughtily to speak.
EMR, Electro-Magnetic Radiation is EVERYWHERE in the Cosmos, for the most part it is often called Radio Static and much of it emanates from Stars, Gases, Atoms, Molecules and the like in the Cosmos, any Ham Radio Operator worth his 'salt' can tell you that.
The same applies to Atomic/Nuclear radiations as well.
For example, the MASSIVE Fireball that we call the SUN, is a Thermo-Nuclear Reactor converting Hydrogen into Helium and so on down the line.
And as it does so, it releases RADIATION in the forms of Light, Heat, Energy, etc, etc, every single milli-second that literally STREAMS out from it in ALL directions, the ONLY things that save us and almost every other LIVING things on this planet are the Electro-Magnetic Field generated by the rotation of the Nickle-Iron Core at the centre of the planet spinning around, as does the armature of a simple generator, inside the the Outer Core of the Planet AND the Ozone Layer in the Upper Atmosphere PLUS Earth is in what is called, The Goldilocks Zone as well where it neither too hot NOR to cold in relation to the reach of the Sun effects, etc, were it NOT for these factors then Earth would be somewhat similar to Mercury, Venus and possibly Mars as well.
Lucky us, we got to evolve and then learned how to 'SCREW UP' billions of years of toil done by the Cosmos into the bargain.

@Triphid "so haughtily to speak." Can I just point out that I was concentrating on universal attractions and repulsions between atoms and molecules that make up all living things on this earth. Nothing else to do with the Cosmos. I do not think that there are any different atoms anywhere in the Universe . So it is my Theory that aliens will be human like in many many respects. You cannot get haughty with theories. You just have to prove them or disprove them. I look forward to Aliens arriving so that my theory can advance itself.

@Mcflewster FYI, my reply/response was NOT directed at you btw.
It was meant for the comment posted by @Denopenno

@Triphid Yes sometimes the anticipated receiver of one' reply is automatically inserted. I have taken to trying always to put it in myself. Thanks for explaining.

@Mcflewster "Human like in many. many aspects, " Why do you posit that it should be so?
Imo, Evolution is a kind of tricky business when combine with the literally countless external influences, etc, that are in both surrounding environs and the Cosmos.
Could it not have that IF the Asteroid that struck the Yucatan Peninsula some 65 Million years ago and wiped out at least 99% of the then DOMINANT species, the Dinosaurs, that those self-same Dinosaurs may have continued to evolve even further, eventually becoming far more intelligent, etc, etc?
For ages we have thought that they were just big blundering reptilian like animals in comparison to us with our so-called bigger and better brains but researches done recently have shown in many cases that they were often smarter than we were led to think/believe.
After it IS all boiled down, we Homo Sapien Sapiens ( Modern Humans btw) DID evolve from eventually from a somewhat smallish, scared little scavenging mammal like creature that once hid from the Dinosaurs since it WAS a quick snack for the Carnivorous ones.
There have been numerous E.L.E's ( Extinction Level Events btw) throughout the history of this planet that have resulted in great changes to the Evolution of Life here as we now know it.
At first, there were ONLY Cyano-bacteria evolving on this planet with an atmosphere that was literally TOXIC to ALL other forms of life, then came along other minute forms of life that exuded oxygen instead of the toxic gases that the Cyano-bacteria exuded, the Cyano-bacteria, though they still exist in a few places around the planet, kind of lost the Evolutionary Race and the atmosphere began to contain more and more Oxygen thus allowing oxygen breathing life forms to begin evolving slowly, this also occurred in the waters as well, thus aquatic life began to gain a foot-hold as well.
And so on and so forth it went.
But that does NOT mean that exact same cycle occurred EVERYWHERE in the Cosmos, it also may well mean that simply because Life here is about 99% Carbon Based that it MUST have occurred EVERYWHERE else.
For example, the element Silicone can easily combine naturally with of elements on the Periodic Table so could it not be probable that life elsewhere in the Cosmos could have evolved from a Silicone based organism that does NOT oxygen, free or otherwise, to breathe.
We also seem to tend to forget that we share this planet with another species that is almost as much intelligent as we are, the Cetaceans, the Whales and Dolphins, it is NOT unimaginable that had the Wheel of Evolution revolved in the opposite direction/rotation that instead of us, the Cetaceans may well have evolved and become the Dominant Species?
After all, they WERE once a Terrestrial ( Land-based) living species with actual pronounced limbs.

3

High likelihood there are aliens out there. However, No known evidence of their existence . Of all the resources we have, I wouldn’t spend much of them on the search...

Perhaps we have not YET found them because our Technologies, etc, are still far too primitive to allow us to do so?
Since we 'discovered' electricity WE have been emitting into space and steady signal of approx. 50hz from the vast networks of Electrical Power Grids that almost cover this planet btw.
Radio waves, btw, ALSO travel at Light Speed which is approx. 300, 000 miles per second or 180, 000 Kilometres per second through space.
And, approx. 6 Million, Million Miles per year, i.e. 1 light Year and given that the NEAREST Star System to Earth, the Binary Star System of Alpha and Beta Centauri, is, IF memory serves correct, is approx. 6 or 7 LIGHT Years distant then I'll leave it to you to do the Maths and calculate how long it would take for a Radio Transmission from Earth to reach it.

@Triphid Are you expecting our technologies to speed up Light?

@Mcflewster are you assuming it can never be changed?

@Canndue Actually I heard of one unexpected change this week. Surely it is our biggest problem for visiting aliens on their home planet

@Mcflewster Now, imo, you are being 110% ridiculous with that comment/question, either that OR you failed completely to read and comprehend what I posted.

@Mcflewster Sir, OUR technological abilities atm are limited to a system that requires Combustion to Produce the propulsion to accelerate an object to 7 miles per second, i.e. 45,000 per hour to escape the pull of Gravity and get it into NEAR Earth space/orbit using thousands of pounds of fuel to do so as well.
No try a little maths here and calculate the time it would take for a Probe to travel from Earth to the Binary Star system of A& B Centauri given that Light travels at 186,000 miles per second, 6 Million Million Miles per year and that the Centauri system is approx. 6-7 Light Years distant from us.
Imo, UNTIL we have discovered a system to allow us to utilise F.T.L. Propulsion ( Faster than Light Propulsion, which btw, has been proposed as a possibility, OR S.A.T.F. ( Space and Time Folding) ,which has also been proposed often as a possibility btw, we will remain as being similar to children trying to win in races against cars on bicycles when it comes to Space Travel.
Both Einstein and later Werner von Braun, I'm sure you remember him, the Nazi Warmonger whom the U.S. gave an Unconditional Pardon to so they could enter into the Space Race post WWII, that both ARE a possibility but at present impossible BECAUSE our Technology, etc, is way too primitive, etc, to comprehend it.
Einstein also proposed that as an object nears/reaches Light Speed time within that object slows down whilst at its point of origin time still ticks away as it always has done.
Imo, ABSOLUTELY No-one can say for a 100% certainty as whether or not there are/have been Civilisations much much older than ours residing/ or still reside within this vast Cosmos.
All we know about the actual Cosmos that surround this ONE Galaxy in which we reside is, imo, far less than we know about what lives beneath the oceans atm.

3

Hence the reason we’re all borderline miracles and very special beings in the universe. Much much time, and countless happenings, is what it took for us to be here.

10

Everything in history was inescapable, like fate, but without the dark cloaks and shadows.
The big question isn't "how did humans come about on this planet?" the big question is "can humans continue to survive on this planet?" and the jury is still out.

I personally don't have much hope. My curious question is "What will evolve upward and replace humans?.

@starwatcher-al Microbes as of now, the very things like pollution and climate change and disease that will probably wipe out humans will wipe out all multicellular eukaryotic life forms.

Imo, the much BIGGER question is " Can this planet survive Humans."

@starwatcher-al I believe we will gradually get control of evolution through gene technology. IF we do then we have to all put up with Humans and our weaknesses for quite a time.

@Willow_Wisp "can humans continue to survive on this planet?" Only the very last person on Earth ( or maybe two) can answer that question

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:575642
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.