This is the toxic core of liberalism and the root cause of many of our current problems: the quasi religious belief that the pursuit of individual happiness without regard to the common good should be an "inalienable right."
The result is that we live in the era of the tyrannical individual who has put him- or herself in the place of the God in whom we no longer believe.
("L' ère de l'individu tyran". par Eric Sadin)
3
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
16 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.He said with a straight face, pretending the other party doesn't vote against "common good" legislation like raising the minimum wage, ensuring basic human rights, or protecting children from gun violence every single fucking chance they get.
You, sir, are an absolute fucking joke.
ChestRockfield
Level 8
May 19, 2023
1
He's from France. He has no concept of our political dynamics in the US.
Dude you’re bringing a black turtlenecked Euro view of liberalism into a largely Merkin venue. After the progressive movement, Wilson, FDR, JFK, and LBJ (and beyond) liberalism became something else in the US. There’s also Rawls and Sandel’s critique of that. Aren’t you pushing communitarianism?
One criticism I have heard of Boomers in the US is they were the existentialism-infused “me” generation. That was a French derived thing. Sartre etc. They started off as bra and draft card burning hippies dropping acid then morphed into Reaganite “greed is good” coke fiends then some peeled off to vote for Slick Willie the intern banger. Thatcher-Reagan neoliberalism inspired Clinton-Blair. The US has never had a powerful leftward tilt that actually mattered. We water stuff down.
Scott321
Level 7
May 17, 2023
5
How about the conservative belief that the religious right of a single individual supersedes the common good of everyone else?
Heraclitus
Level 8
May 17, 2023
4
Knocking on my door on a Saturday morning.
Telling children, not raised in the preferred religion, that they are going to burn in fire forever.
Hmmmm... It's so-called "conservatives" who are insisting on their individual rights to own an AR-15, to not be vaccinated, to not wear a mask, to not be exposed to American history, to not acknowledge LGBTQ rights, to not pay taxes, to carry a gun in public, to drive an Earth-destroying SUV, to burn fossil fuels like there's no tomorrow, to clearcut the forests, to remove mountain tops, to disseminate propaganda and fake news, to peddle their shitty religion in public schools, etc., etc., to the detriment of all.
Flyingsaucesir
Level 8
May 17, 2023
9
I couldn't stereotypes left or right, they all come in degrees and levels of interest. Glad labels don't stick to me.
Didn't you post this the other day?
What you seem to be castigating is Ayn Rand's Objectivism which is basically "unfettered self-interest is good and altruism is destructive."
I despise everything about Ayn Rand, and altruism is a core trait of most liberals I have known.
BufftonBeotch
Level 8
May 17, 2023
8
Ayn Rand who joined Social Security and Medicare in 1976 because she couldn't afford her health care.
Far be it for me to not comment on "the toxic core of liberalism and the root cause of many of our current problems."
Generally speaking, what's good for the public individual is good for most society since humans are mostly alike and our Rights mostly an idea to join equality with freedom within our political system. Therefore, the individual's Rights are of higher priority than those for the needs of many (often called "law" ). That's why we have a system to examine unfairnesses within law. An individual's Rights can not be questioned but often difficult to assert. When they clash with the public good then the individual's Rights get higher consideration.
rainmanjr
Level 8
May 17, 2023
4
100% wrong. Working for the common good leads to disasters like the old USSR and the old PRC where people were killed by the millions.
If everyone would look out for themselves and their families, not exploit others, and we had a decent safety net in place, we will be much better off than working for "the common good"
BD66
Level 8
May 17, 2023
5
Wouldn't say 100% wrong, if common good means centroism then the extreme to lead to absolute power. then to absolutely corruption, we do know this throughout human history. Right or wrong, can mean there is a better answers in between these extreme consequences.
There is no way in the world that people it would work. Far too many people are far too greedy to care about anyone else but themselves.
You are a liberal in the old school Euro sense. Unfortunate confusing term @Thibaud70 dwells upon. Individualism per Ayn Rand liberalism doesn’t work. That’s why the US is a fucking dystopian hell from its 2nd amendment onward. Religious “liberty” (not for nonconforming) too. Fuck that theocratic crap.
BD66:
@Jolanta There's a really good documentary on Netflix about chimpanzees, our nearest relatives:
Chimp culture is works as follows:
A group of 5 to 30 males will stake out an area which has lots of chimp food. They will defend the area with their lives and try at every opportunity to go after males in other areas and kill them at every opportunity in order to extend their feeding area. The females the reach adulthood are driven out of the area they grew up in and must go elsewhere to find mates and protection.
That's chimp society. Early human society was not all that different.
You cannot fundamentally alter human nature. Human nature is to try to provide for your own family, not some stranger who lives 2000 miles away.
As long as the government puts incentives in place that are in line with human nature, those will work. When you try to get humans to do something that is fundamentally against their nature (like collectivism on the scale of millions) it leads to starvation, murder, and death.
Uh oh...another faux intellectual who confuses the tyrannical individual with tyranny of the minority.
Secretguy
Level 7
May 17, 2023
6
Pretty sure he posted this exact thing a week or so ago.
It may be a difference in United states and European definition of a Liberal.
I"d look at my world is 50% about me as an individual and 50% about everyone and thing in life. GODS and centroism unbalance things, as I can, if too selfish or egotistical. I'm the king of my own domain, not anyone esle. Bring self serve first , not selfishness. All I have in life is what I give away. If I don't have love or money I can't give it away. God is just a word, most people would call God, the Government because they give nearly half their money away to them.. Government is not mine ultimate love and not my partner in life , it's so sad for most who trust the Government and the love is poorly returned.
Castlepaloma
Level 8
May 17, 2023
0
You seem to be confusing conservatism with liberalism.
And you might want to elaborate on what you believe are "our current problems".
Charles1971
Level 7
May 17, 2023
7
Or Objectivism. Which is repulsive to me. Think Ayn Rand.
"the toxic core of liberlism"....this is what you believe????????
Ummmm, try looking up The Golden Rule. or if religious, Jeebus teachings of "as ye do unto the least of these, ye do unto me''
Sounds SOOOO toxic, riiiiggghhht?.........
AnneWimsey
Level 9
May 17, 2023
9
The "inalienable right" is that all of us should have equal opportunity and healthcare regardless of our race, skin color, and origin but we know this is not so. It should be corrected but those in power will not allow this. Why do you think this is the core of toxic liberalism? You sound like a mouthpiece for American politics and we all know some countries appear to have this with no problems. Wanting the best of everything for everyone is not toxic. We are not talking wealth here. We are not talking "giveaways." We are talking equality.
In America the lost whiners will start in with "yes, but at our Southern border with Mexico blah blah blah" and then take this into "but Biden blah blah blah." I call the whiners "lost" because they seem to deliberately miss the point. They appear to be indoctrinated well. They know the talking points of distraction and all for the purpose of political gain. Let's try an equality gain for humanity and respect and we will all prosper.
DenoPenno
Level 9
May 17, 2023
6
No "Right" can be economic because any Right must be equally available to everyone. Rights are political, never economic.
Somebody posted to another page I follow, that even if every American, able and ready to do so, was working? There would still be 4.2 million available jobs.
The immigrants are needed.
Start worrying if they stop coming.
@BufftonBeotch They can come if they come legally. We don't need a ton of illegals with no employment skills.
@Alienbeing A hundred or so years ago people were pretty much admitted off the boat so long as weren't sick and were able bodied. There was still some racism then as well. Notably against Jewish people.
These people coming are not unskilled, they usually have a job within a couple of days of being released to await an asylum hearing. So they fill an open and waiting job.
And these impoverished refugees, often illiterate in English, cannot possibly be expected to be able to navigate the process the way an applicant from a wealthier background can. It is complicated and can cost thousands of dollars.
Yes. We of course welcome the gifted, educated people in the sciences and medical field from other counties, but the refugees should have a path forward as well. The care givers and the maintenance and the food workers are just as vital.
@BufftonBeotch You greatly misuse the term "refugee"
Last, we are in the 21rst Century, not the late 1800s, and early 1900s. Change took place.
@Alienbeing I am not misusing the term refugee at all. These people are fleeing extreme violence and desperation. You don't walk thousands of miles with small children on a whim.
And times are not really that different. The people then were proud of their advancements and thought they were living in advanced times, just as we do.
In fact, many of the jobs refugees filled then are still exactly the same - house cleaning, child/elder care, maintenance, construction, farm work, meat packing.
@BufftonBeotch They want to come here for economic opportunity. Violence in their countries is gang or criminal related and that is NOT a legal reason to enter.
@Alienbeing Disagree. And our farm industry and meat industry is absolutely dependent on immigrant workers.
@BufftonBeotch I did not say or even address the needs of the meat or farm industries. What I said (and it is a fact) is that seeking better oppportunity or gang or criminals violence in one's home country are not legal reasons to enter the U.S.
If one or all of those reasons constitute the reason(s) for the migrant's illegal crossing, he/she has no legal reason to cross.
@Alienbeing The gangs are in charge of the country.
They will abduct an 11 year old girl from a home at gun point to rape her. They will put a gun to a 12 year old boys head and make him join the gang.
His initiation will be killing his own mother to prove his allegiance.
Telling that you think no one has the right to flee that.
@BufftonBeotch Gangs being in charge of a country DOES NOT give legal reason for illegal entrance to the USA.
Anyone can seek a better life...... LEGALLY.
@Alienbeing That takes thousands of dollars and legal savvy that impoverished people do not have.
@Alienbeing And the US is the reason these people live under gang rule. We funded the right wing dictators to overthrow the leaders they elected.
@BufftonBeotch Being impoverished is NOT a reason for illegal immigration..
@BufftonBeotch Baloney. Unfortunately, our Southern Hemisphere has been plagued by poor or absolute dishonest Governments for almost all their existence. Any aid we gave them did not create the problem.
@Alienbeing We gave them Pinochet and helped slaughter people in a soccer stadium.
School of the Americas for another.
@BufftonBeotch That is in part correct, but in no way justifies illegal border crossing.
@Alienbeing Coming through a legal border crossing and asking asylum is not illegal.
Plenty of other people not brown over stay a work visa and hope to humpy to a marriage and anchor baby. Like all trumps wives.
@Alienbeing Illegal border crossing. Trumpers that I work with thought I should be shot for going to Kenya without a visa. We live in a sad world today.
@DenoPenno Trumpers and Trump himself stink, however illegal crossings are still illegal.
@BufftonBeotch Did I ever say coming through an official border crossing and requesting asylum was not legal? No I did not. Are you trying to create a Strawman argument?
I'll add that if one crosses at an official border crossing and requests asylum merely to seek better economic opportunity then one should be immediatly rejected as that is not a legal reason to request asylum.
Certainly any group that can collect a third to half your money, is the closest thing we can call God. Think Mormon and scientology tops at 10% of a members income. I am my own boss, nobody owns me, only the Government I have to limit my engagement with.
Castlepaloma
Level 8
May 17, 2023
2
"the god in whom we no longer believe" ?. By far the worst are the Christian right who's community is the church they belong to and the dictator is the pastor who fleeces them.
Moravian
Level 8
May 17, 2023
7
What is a "paster"
@Alienbeing my humble apologies. Typo amended
@Moravian I learn always wasn't plural, nobody told me that for years, thanks Alienbeing
@Moravian Typo? the "o" and the "e" are FAR apart on my keyboard. How can it be a typo?
Too much selfish individualism certainly can be a bad thing. But it is a mistake to think that the individual and the community are inevitably in conflict, or have different interests, they are only in conflict when one or both are interested in doing bad things. When the individual is bad, we call it crime, and when the community is bad, we call it oppression.
The obvious proof of that, is the simple observation that, any true communities only real interest, and in fact its only reason for existence, is the happiness of the individuals within it. Therefore the common good is the good of all the individuals.
Fernapple
Level 9
May 17, 2023
10
Well said....and as a member of that social group "civilization", should have a "right", to be heard.
Well said, I agree. Too much of any extreme is no good, and liberalism is hardly to blame for all of the perceived evils in the world.
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
Share this post
Categories
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.