You don't find capitalists charging capitalist for being capitalists ironic?
Or Biden not being charged because of diminished mental capacity in the classified documents case but still allowed to remain president? Can't see the irony?
Or all the Russiagate bollocks of "Putin's puppet", when Biden dances when Netanyahu pulls the strings for the sole interest of Israel? Still no irony?
Or "another election another abortion debate" promoted by democrats when thousands of women and children have ruined lives due to their policies? They are so humane.
Then crying over political freedom for opposition, rallying against political persecution. Whilst Assange rots and Trump is hounded.
Perhaps irony is the wrong word, should have used hypocritical.

No doubt he died prematurely which is not good but who really knows how or perhaps why. What really get's me is these arseholes wish to lecture their morals whilst Assange suffers inhuman treatment. Sick irony. Navalny was not the major political force in Russia Western leaders would have us believe.

@puff I remember hearing about him years ago from some Russian friends I have.

@Jolanta Maybe comparable to a Pauline Hanson over here in Oz, though Pauline has more electoral clout so perhaps a bit generous. Even so, could Pauline Hanson be described as the main political opposition in Australia?

@Jolanta Just have to add, actually a good comparison. If you recall, we locked Pauline up too. For electoral fraud, to silence her.
"When you point the finger of accusation, three fingers are pointing straight back at you"

@puff To me Pauline is like a bad circus act.

@Jolanta Agree totally. Navalny is (was) the same in Russia by most accounts.

@puff I can’t agree with you there about Navalny. From my Russian friends he was very much regarded as someone who they thought well of.

@Jolanta It's a good question, no-one is all good or bad. Pauline Hanson is well regarded as well by many decent people. I still think he was more of an agitator, jumping on popular dissatisfaction with Russian life. Due to his time in the states at Yale and knowing their history, you cannot dismiss the possibility he was a CIA asset, encouraged and financed by them, nudged into the direction he should follow. Like Pauline, he offered no real solutions to Russia's problems, just highlighted them. A man after my own heart aka a shit stirrer. Seen quite a bit of commentary regarding possible MI6 influence as well. The Novichok poisoning was a sham (if true him and all around him would be dead, never flown to Germany. It's ultra lethal.). He made two documentary's in a month, with one winning an academy award. About as believable as Hunter Biden being a high end artist.
I think I can safely say there has been a concerted effort to demonise Putin's leadership from the "West" over many years. So you can assume as someone who opposed Putin's rule, the "West" has elevated Navalny well above his station.
Just want Assange released really. All political persecution to stop.

New York is now being bankrupted by all accounts, if entrepreneurs follow Kevin O'leary's lead, which any sane person would. Such a shame as New York was once the place to make your name if you were in real estate. That great city is now crumbling.

Still find it ironic a capitalist country has convicted an entrepreneur for being a capitalist. Nothing to do with Trump entering politics of course, even hand has lady justice.

@puff Capitalism only works if there are laws. and those laws are enforced. Trump stepped outside the laws, got caught, and now he's getting slapped. It is as it should be.

@Flyingsaucesir Please look at Kevin O'Leary's take in my reply to a comment above. This sets new precedent. Laws only work if applied evenly. It is interesting how the Clinton's and especially Obama's fortunes massively increased during their presidency's and immediately after. Nancy Pelosi has done very well being the Speaker for many years. Trump is the only recent president that diminished his fortune whilst in office.
This case is bollocks. Ever bought a house? Second hand car? You initially have the highest price desired but usually settle for less. you barter/ negotiate a price that satisfies both parties. I'm saying every single car salesman is as guilty as Trump in this area and thus should be prosecuted the same, as we are all equal under the law. Allegedly.

@puff Yeah, Trumpty Dumpty is screaming selective prosecution, but it's not. The dirty mother fucker stole classified documents and tried to obstruct justice; paid off a porn star, forged business and tax records in order to bamboozle voters; defrauded the United States and tried to disenfranchise 81,000,000 Americans to overturn a legitimate election and hang on to power against the will of the people. These prosecutions are not at all out of line. If you or I tried to get away with one hundredth of what he has done, we would already be in jail. Trump is a fascist prick and is getting what's coming to him. He's very lucky to be in a country of laws. It could be a lot worse. Look how Hitler and Musolini ended up.

@Flyingsaucesir You are really missing the point here. It is not Trumpty Dumpty screaming here. Trump is a psycho and can crash and burn for all I care. Trump is psycho eg charismatic and a total bullshit artist, interested only in his own needs.
But lets call him Bob for fun. This is Bob's case in a nut shell.

Bob goes to the bank, wants to borrow money to build a building. The bank wants to know how much he's worth, what he proposes and the cost to build and how much the asset will be worth when finished. So Bob tells them, the bank checks Bob's figures and loan the money. Bob pays the money back; win win. Capitalist business enterprise.
But the justice department don't like Bob, they know he's psycho so they say he overestimated his assets to get the loan. Insurance and tax offences because of that (truly laughable as overestimating assets would incur more insurance and tax liabilities).
Buy a house, you pay as little as you can. Sell a house, as much as you can. WTF is a court doing saying what the price of real estate should be? It's the price someone is willing to pay for it, borrow and lend money against it.

The fact Trump also has to pay the full penalty before lodging an appeal should scare everyone as well. Another new legal precedent of which this case has many.

@puff It is you who are missing the point. Other players in the marketplace who did not lie about the value of their assets were placed at a disadvantage by Trump's fraud. They had to pay higher interest rates for the same loan amounts, higher insurance rates for the same coverage. And they either had to take the loss or pass the higher costs on to their customers. Ultimately, consumers were injured because Trump didn't play by the rules; he rigged the game in his own favor. That's not how capitalism is supposed to work. That's why we have laws that govern the game.

@Flyingsaucesir FFS do you want capitalist or not? For capitalist is survival of the fittest, step on others to move up. People get ripped off and people have wins. You have to sell your skills and play the game. How do you think people get rich? Pure brilliance or playing the game to advantage? Those whining Trump got loans on better terms due to smooth talking, watched politicians lately who don't pay back pledges made at election time?
Trump played the game better than most, he is American capitalist through and through 100%, a picture perfect example of American capitalism. That's the irony, talk about self hate.

If you want to cry it's not fair you might want to see the doctor. You might be turning into a commie

@puff You apparently have no idea how capitalism is supposed to work. Trump did not "smooth talk" his way into more favorable terms; he LIED. He signed his name to false documents. That is NOT allowed. ANYONE who gets caught doing what he did is liable for prosecution and restitution. You are confusing kleptocracy for capitalism. Please read Adam Smith before saying another word.

@Flyingsaucesir This is unprecedented in many ways. It is not normal.

@puff It's unprecedented in that no American president or former president has ever behaved as egregiously as Trump.