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Militant Atheists?

I am going to post on a rather sensitive topic: What do you all think of someone who is as militant about their atheistic beliefs as fundies are about Xtianity? I've been a bit upset lately by a friend who has zero tolerance for other peoples' beliefs. I say live and let live, unless they are very conservative. QAnon, or Bible-thumpers. As an organist, I play hymns for a tiny rural congregation of Episcopalians. I am an agnostic, and they are liberal, but have different beliefs than I do. I don't hang around after I play. They pay me. I give most of the money either to my disabled son or the ACLU. My friend is livid that I continue to play there, as I am comfortably retired, and he doesn't think I need the money. I don't think it's any of his business, and that he's being an intrusive busy body. BTW, I am by far not the only agnostic or atheist organist. There are many. The organ is a cool instrument, and most are located in churches. What, if you were me, would you say to my friend?

Organist1 8 Sep 21
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27 comments

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11

Your "friend" isn't paying your bills.
Whatever they think is irrelevant.

You run your life how you see fit.
None of us are here to live up to anyone else's expectations.
Family, friends, or otherwise.

If your friend can't accept how you live,
they really aren't much of a friend.

Hear! Hear!

@anglophone I second that motion and double it as well.

Yes.

10

I think you're right, what you choose to do with your time is up to you-not him. I enjoy christmas music-I know the reason behind it is a bunch of bull-but the music is beautiful in it's own right. If he does
n't like what you do -well too damn bad, he's not the one pulling your puppet strings.

10

"What fear within you is driving you to tell me what to do with my life?"

I have no problem with religion. I have no problem with religious people. I take great exception to any asshole who tries to ram his belief system or his value system down my throat.

Yes, exactly! It's proselytizing of any kind that gets under my skin, because it starts with the person's belief that someone else is ignorant, and in need of being "enlightened". Whether about a non-existant god, or the absence of one, it doesn't matter to me.

10

Tell him to fuck off, and get a life. But, hey, that's me. I don't put up with any one's bs any more, life's to short and what I do with my shit and my life is no one's business but mine.

9

He's being arrogant about his beliefs, which are just as dearly held as any Christians'. Who is HE to say he's right, and they're wrong?
It'd be one thing if it was a fundamentalist Evangelical church, but these people are very tolerant and open-minded. Your 'friend' should be open-minded and tolerant himself.
But unfortunately too many atheists are as stubborn and judgmental as the worst of the Christians. That's why I'm agnostic: I admit I don't know and will never know the truth.

Right. It's the arrogance that upsets me. The only community activities these people are involved are feeding the homeless. I say let them alone, unless they are trying to take someone's rights away, which they are not.

@Organist1 Exactly, which is exactly what the fundamentalists try to do: take your rights away in the name of Jesus, or try to force you to believe what they believe (for your own good, of course). No matter what kind of True Believer they are, they have one thing in common: a fanatical conviction they have The Answer. The more tolerant and inclusive a person or a group is, the more they deserve respect.

8

Fortunately, after long contact with the atheist community it seems that such people are rare, and I have had few contacts with them.

I always describe myself as a "broad church sceptic", meaning that I am happy with anyone who has rejected the dogma of religion, and happy to support any views outside of that, be they atheist, agnostic or even deist, since it is dogma which does the harm, the none existent, none communicating or inactive god never harmed anybody, only the dogma of his followers did that. So that it is all important not to start pushing dogma of our own.

I probably feel the same way. I think people should be free to express what they believe, as long as that doesn't hurt or insult anyone else. I would put hymn singing in that category. Belief in a god, IMHO, is a benign delusion, as long as it's expressed harmlessly.

@Organist1 You have to be a little wary though, because there can be said to be consequences that follow from 'normalizing' some things. Even helping to expand and support the most harmless fringe of religion, does help to enlarge the pool in which the extreme fundamentalists swim, and makes their activeties seem a small amount less unreasonable.

7

Firstly, I suppose I could well be classed as being 'militant' at times because I am quite out-spoken about being an Atheist and I ridicule religions at every available opportunity.
I hold very little ,though, against those who choose to believe religion and its proven twaddle, EXCEPT when they try to FORCE FEED me with it, then I will fire back with everything I have.
It is NOT the believers as such that I see as my opponent it is the RELIGION/s themselves that I detest and will continue to ridicule, etc, etc, until my dying breath has left my body.

6

The Agnostic Front is a racist movement. There's a skinhead racist rock band by that name. Their music is banned in most of Europe. Sometimes I think we might have a few of them show up on this site.

Probably lots of skinhead atheists on this site, let’s face it, most are old and losing their hair 😉

@Canndue Old as opposed to "youthful" you?

6

It is unlikely that your friend is a pure as driven snow. Does he not use products produced by utterly corrupt corporations? As an organist, with most or all employment coming from religionists, that is your gimme. You get that pass just as he gives himself a pass on those instances where he sacrifices his scruples.

Tell him to think of how money collected in the name of religion is redirected to an atheist. He should want you to stay...

Good point. Prior to his retirement, he was involved in a business many people would consider unscrupulous, but apparently, 35 or so Episcopalians upset him more. 🙂

@Organist1 What kind of unscrupulous business was that?

5

Simply to fuck off. You have the right to do what you're doing and it seems you're not causing any harm and the same for the people you play for. You have different beliefs? So what? That's normal.

4

I consider myself fairly militant within the realm of decency. I honestly couldn't care less what you do with your free time lol. That sounds crass but it's not. It's not my business.

4

Oh, My (not)-God! Even great “militant atheists” like Chris Hitchens or agnostics like Bertrand Russell enjoyed and appreciated the music, art and architecture produced by christian culture over the centuries. I think the kind of intolerant and preachy tone of your “friend” tends to be based in a simple-minded, literal thinking that can infect any world view, and sadly seems to be very popular at the moment.

3

I would avoid the subject completely, or him......

3
  1. It is my employment
  2. Provides income to donate & help my son
  3. Is a religious bigot tolerable?
  4. It is music where ever its played & the greatest composer who ever lived J. S. Bach wrote music for the
    church, so one should not revel in his genius?
  5. It satisfies me to play music
  6. It is your choice not his
  7. He is out of line not respecting your decision
  8. He is projecting/imposing his values onto you
  9. Your finances should be private & not his concern
  10. I'm with you. You win!

Where else can I play Bach, and on an instrument intended for that purpose? My favorite composer!

@OldMetalHead That sounds wonderful. Did they ever have anyone give a concert on it? When I was a teenager, I went to our local ENT doctor, who had a home office. Another thing he had in his house was a pipe organ, which he had his house specially modified to accommodate!

@OldMetalHead Organ music with pizza on the side...what could be better?

3

I'd tell your friend to get over it.

2

You're right that it's not any of his business. If you enjoy doing it, then do it. This seems like it's more about your friend wanting to control you than about any level of ethics. Perhaps tell him that he has crossed a boundary when it comes to telling you what to do. Make sure he understands where the exit is if he chooses not to let up about it.

Deb57 Level 8 Sep 23, 2021
2

I am a woodworker and work for a company that remodels builds custom homes. These have to be owned by people who have money as for most the prices are above half a million dollars. Should I stop working for this company and try to get by on welfare and Medicare? I think not, it is not my fault that people with money want things that are custom made and designed. I have been doing this for over forty years, woodworking that is. My politics is about the same as my boss and the others I work with, but when it comes to work, people have to be able to afford what people do. A waiter serves people who can afford to buy the food that is served in the restaurant the people have visited.
If we are going to get pure and work only for those who have good politics and think the same as I, then I am going to starve. Anyone who has a skill that is liked by another has a right to perform that for the other and get a fair wage for the effort.
Personally, I would sit in any church in the world and listen to a good musician, most churches are built with great acoustics. One should take care of the skill they have, perform it for those who want to hear or see, or sit within or live in. If one does not like this then the society has to change and have a good time doing that especially in these times.
Play on!

2

I have encountered very few who are militant about their atheism. My biggest peeve is about "free-thinking" atheists who continually proselytize their regressive leftist indoctrination.

Ha ha ha, I get it! When you say "regressive" you mean "progressive", but you can't bear to use that word.

@BitFlipper Negative. I recognize that the left promote many truly progressive and worthwhile policies. My comment references support for regressive policies:

Support for Marxism/Socialism/Communism and Collectivism
Tolerance of and/or support for the propagation of Islam
Support for open societies and open borders
Opposition to free market economics
Opposition to the meritocracy
Opposition to the only functioning democracy in the Middle East
Support for BLM, CRT, Antifa
Support for "green" energy while opposing nuclear energy.
Asserting that there is no such thing as a conservative, a Republican, or a Trump supporter who is not also intrinsically and incorrigibly evil.
etc. etc. etc.

Few subscribe to all of the above. Those who espouse to a few of them are the ones whom I refer to as "regressive".

2

Sounds like your friend needs to allow you your life...

2

I would say, buzz off. Like you, I am not into hassling or battling believers over religion. I just want to be left alone on the subject and for them to not back or push theocratic laws against me. Otherwise, live and let live. There is nothing wrong with your organ playing gigs and whatever you do with the money is your business only.

2

I am a militant atheist. My weapon of choice is a word processor. How you react to things is your business.

1

I would let this “friend” know that while I respect their right to their beliefs, I do not allow their beliefs to dictate my life choices. And I would distance myself from this intolerant dolt.

1

Great speaking i love this

1

Be happy because you are doing what make you feel good and think that the people in the building is paying. you for your talents . You can not stop or control your friend's intolerance. But you can control your emotions.

1

I agree with you. What harm is it doing to him. Is he afraid you might get sucked into the congregation?

He is very rigid and controlling. He thinks it's morally repugnant to "support" religion by playing the organ. I'm alarmed by all of this.

@Organist1 And he's a friend? Seems very one sided to me. Sorry, just venting. A couple that have been very close for over 10 years have, with the virus, showed their true colors and it feels like a divorce. I want nothing to do with them and wonder why I didn't see the little warning signs all along. I know this pandemic has broken up families and friends.

@JackPedigo Unfortunately, friendships last until one goes past the line the other will not go. Most of the time in normal settings the lines can get foggy as they have little actual substance. Once the substance of a person is known then the truth of that person comes out. I learned a long time ago that if someone wants to control me, then we are done. If someone wants to dictate to me the rules I will live by, then we are done. There are many people out there that we could be casual friends with, but that does not mean we could survive a week on an island without food or water and only out wits to help us survive.

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