Now that this group has added the BLM movement to its identity, it will be interesting to see if it gets some involvement and engagement from Agnostic.com members who support anti-racism, but are at the same time very accepting and supportive of capitalism. Those people, in my opinion, don't belong in this group because, as MLK figured out before his murder, that racism is so intertwined and supported by capitalism in America, that we will never triumph over racism here until capitalism is also bought to heel by government. Capitalism as practiced in America will always use race as a way to divide the masses against each other so they won't unite along class lines against the ruling class, as poor whites and free blacks were beginning to back in the colonial days before the American Revolution. The ruling class put a stop to that quickly before they revolted against the British. Thoughts?
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.There are two capitalisms in America:
- the Wall Street sociopath kind, and
- the Employee Ownership kind.
A Harvard Business Review years ago said EO is kinder to the environment and there’s less employee theft.
yvilletom
Level 8
Aug 21, 2020
1
That's quite true. I've worked for many owner/bosses in the second category of capitalist, and very few of them had any humanity towards their workers. I particularly remember the next to last one. He was the son of the man who owned the company and, like the spoiled Trump-like brat he was, particularly relished harassing the employees that his father had him overseeing as prez of the company. He even had the audacity to come up to my work station in the plant more than once when he was visiting with friends of his or his father and would tell me to my face that he was considering buying machinery that would replace me at my job. I am not a violent man, but you can imagine how much I wanted to go outside with him and beat his ass, which I have no doubt that I was rageful enough inside that I could have done it. He seemed to think it was all a funny joke. If I ever see him on the street and get the chance to destroy his ride without being caught, I still might do it.
Just last night i was listening to an interesting interview with ,Thomas Frank, the author of " listen liberal " and few other books. He mentioned the same idea about what MLK figured out before his murder . I don't think it's possible to achieve any kind of justice or equality under capitalism.
At the minute 45, is Thomas Frank interview
Shaghaf
Level 6
Aug 10, 2020
2
Maybe under the more European models of capitalism mixed with social democracy, but certainly not under America's form of unregulated capitalism and plutocracy that we have had for decades. Under our type of current capitalism, the best we will get is greater tolerance or freedom to be queer or non-white or an immigrant, but most Americans will never have justice or equality in the areas of economic equality or opportunity, as well as equal justice or power, individually or as a group, unless they are wealthy. All we have gotten since the 1960s in America, as far as social progress or equality, are things like gay rights, abortion rights, tolerance or civil rights for non-white people and more equality for women, all of which have cost corporate America and the rich nothing, which is why these reforms were allowed. Meanwhile, the rich and corporations, along with their bought pols in DC, proceeded to trade away our jobs, our middle class standard of living, and our democracy thru international trade deals and treaties that trump our federal and state laws. We no longer are able to make our own laws if they violate these treaties unless we drop out of those treaties and pay the financial penalties for doing so. None of the pols in DC, not even Bernie, is telling the people about these sinister facts and neither is the corporate media, which never covers trade deals in depth anyway.
@TomMcGiverin you're totally right. They can tolerate any kind of those rights; as sexual orientations, abortions, gay marriage...etc as long as you're touching the sacred system of capitalism , as long you're not demanding an economic justice or re distribution of wealth.
I don't have enough information about the European model of capitalism, but I know about the workers strikes and "Gillet Jaunes" in France , not a lot of justice for poor and working class too
Thoughts? Not sure how the group will sway. You are very correct on MLK and he, I believe, was very correct in his analysis.
Beowulfsfriend
Level 9
Aug 10, 2020
3
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